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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#91

Post by jerheinze »

masklinn wrote: post #72
jerheinze wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The map has "Confirmed censorship cases" and Denmark, Finland and France, ... all fit there. For Denmark for example: https://explorer.ooni.torproject.org/country/DK They're blocking http://thepiratebay.org , that's straight up censorship.

> They're blocking http://thepiratebay.org , that's straight up censorship. No, that's anti-piracy judgements.

> No, that's anti-piracy judgements.

How does that change the fact that Denmark censors http://thepiratebay.org?

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#92

Post by wodenokoto »

ykler wrote: post #38
jerheinze wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, censorship is now a global trend. We shouldn't forget that it also happens in many Western countries such as Denmark, Finland, France, ... https://explorer.ooni.torproject.org/world/ And if we look in particular at government censorship of Wikipedia or some articles in it we find quiet a few Western countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_censorship_of_Wikip...

I don't understand what the "anomalies" this site detects in Denmark, Finland, and France represent, but the site itself says that they don't necessarily represent censorship and that it has only confirmed censorship in the following 12 countries: Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India, Indonesia, Greece, Sudan, Belgium, Cyprus and Korea.

As far as I can tell from the linked site, it is only thepiratebay.org that is censored in Denmark, and I can confirm that this censorship is dependant on your internet provider.

My landline provider gives me access, but my mobile provider (TDC, same provider as the one tested on the linked site) does not give me access, saying that a court has banned access to the site, but not quoting any specific case.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#93

Post by jerheinze »

sverhagen wrote: post #70
jerheinze wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The map has "Confirmed censorship cases" and Denmark, Finland and France, ... all fit there. For Denmark for example: https://explorer.ooni.torproject.org/country/DK They're blocking http://thepiratebay.org , that's straight up censorship.

The latter being censorship is really an opinion rather than undisputed, fact, or a guaranteed majority opinion.

> The latter being censorship is really an opinion rather than undisputed, fact, or a guaranteed majority opinion.

So you're saying that "Denmark censors http://thepiratebay.org" is not a fact that can be measured?

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#94

Post by agumonkey »

beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

Yet so many people are rooting for Erdogan... to the point of fighting tanks bare hands. People say erdogan managed to improve some things and now people are all praising him madly...

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#95

Post by agsamek »

azangru wrote: post #65
agsamek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me: - Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would…

Hi. Sorry to single out your country in particular, but its hard to talk in general :)

We get a lot of comments in main Internet portals which present Russians as victims of NATO aggression in case of Ukrainian conflict. It always misses the point of who invaded who.

There is a lot of comments threatening Poland with nuclear conflict, in particular after US Army established its presence here.

These are examples. But it looks like a lot of comments have particular key and great consistency.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#96

Post by [deleted] »

azangru wrote: post #65
agsamek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently. Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies…

Being a Russian, I am naturally very curious about this idea of the Russian propaganda getting a stronger and stronger influence over the minds of people in other countries. Could you kindly elaborate on the following issues that mystify me: - Where do people get the Russian news and why do they care about what Russia has to say? I mean, I don't follow Polish news (or French news, or German news, etc.); so why would…

[deleted]

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#97

Post by jerheinze »

sverhagen wrote: post #76
dragly wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark, Finland, France and many other countries censor The Pirate Bay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_blocking_access_to_T...

That link says: blocking access due to copyright issues. Respectfully, I don't think you're doing justice to the Turkish freedom of speech issue of Wikipedia being blocked by bringing up The Pirate Bay.

> That link says: blocking access due to copyright issues. Respectfully, I don't think you're doing justice to the Turkish freedom of speech issue of Wikipedia being blocked by bringing up The Pirate Bay.

Can we both agree that both of these things shouldn't happen and ThePirateBay and Wikipedia shouldn't be censored by any country?

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#98

Post by agumonkey »

sorenjan wrote: post #67
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees i…

I think we should stop communicating from the top. Many problems right now are because heads of state, not necessarily people. Erdogan, Putin ...

We should try to get real people to talk, about who they are, what they want (peace ? surely .. war ? not so sure). So peoples in every nation start to avoid the national/patriot filter when thinking and voting.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#100

Post by mkempe »

_Adam wrote: post #81
lubonay wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it kinda undemocratic for "the West" to go in and overthrow an, ironically enough, democratically elected dictator?

It's also destabilizing. Look at Libya, Iraq, 1970s Iran, etc. Ukraine is the only example where an autocrat was removed from power without the entire country falling into chaos. They were fortunate to lose control over just Crimea and the eastern zone.

Germany, 1945
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