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N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#91

Post by 3131s »

dmix wrote: post #58

I don't like how this article implies that they aren't saving and storing all of your emails unless you are communicating with a surveillance target. In reality they are sucking up all data in transit and only looking at it when it involves a foreign target. But technically they are storing it regardless if you do or not, and we are basically trusting them to not look at it. This seems to be the biggest issue that is…

> we are basically trusting them to not look at it.

And trusting them not to lose control of the data. Given their inability to protect against Snowden, Shadow Brokers, etc. that is of course a reasonable possibility.

It's also a national security risk, imagine if an antagonistic foreign government had blackmail power over the US business elite, military officials, and politicians.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#92

Post by andreyf »

c517402 wrote: post #68
andreyf wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Collection, unlike retention, of US Persons' data is governed via court decisions, not NSA policy. If Congress doesn't like these retention / collection interpretation of their laws, they can clarify them in statute at any time. But they haven't and probably won't, because "retain everything for judicially approved retroactive collection" is incredibly useful e.g. when a bomb goes off at a marathon and a judge OK…

So, they archive the data and promise not to collect it (look at it) unless they have a national security letter signed by a judge^H^H^H^H^H drinking buddy from the office.

Not only do they "promise" but they realize they'd be violating the legal boundaries placed on their organization if they do. Arguing they shouldn't have the capability for this is like arguing the army shouldn't be allowed to have tanks because then they have the capacity to perform a military coup.

No judge has ever signed an NSL. That's precisely the distinction between a "regular" judicial subpoena and an administrative subpoena [1].

Subpoenas have nothing to do with NSA interception, and everything to do with ordering businesses to produce evidence or individuals to testify pertaining to a crime. The case law setting the "expectation of privacy" test is from the 70s, and the electronic wiretapping laws from the 80's. The only recent development is that SCOTUS decided people don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy when their cell phone connects to cell towers because that's obviously how they work [2].

You don't need a law degree nor security clearance to understand this. Stop finding reasons to justify your anger and start getting informed.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#93

Post by tajen »

nostromo wrote: post #9

> For technical reasons, the agency ended up collecting messages sent and received domestically as a byproduct of such surveillance, the officials said. "Oops didn't mean to." Keep in mind that the NSA lied to Congress very recently. Thanks to Snowden they were caught in that lie. I don't believe anything they say. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/mar/11/...

The only credible way to trust that NSA had stopped wiretapping would be a drastic enough reduction of its finances (and no transfer to FBI/CIA for that purpose).

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#94

Post by lern_too_spel »

nyolfen wrote: post #89
lern_too_spel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Section 9 of that document defines "collection" to mean what you would expect it to mean.

the issue is that there is a secret interpretation of it, as i explained in each of the above posts edit: if the term' collection' is your major gripe, i apologize -- i rewatched the video i cited and the term is actually 'intercept', not 'collect'

Why don't any of Snowden's documents confirm that they're using this interpretation and instead show that they are interpreting it as everyone else does?

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#95

Post by mirimir »

rl3 wrote: post #88
mirimir wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's prudent to assume that the NSA intercepts all Internet traffic, and stores as much as they can, for as long as they can, focusing on what seems most important. Everything is retained for a few days. Then they triage, based on names, addresses, keywords, and so on. Metadata and encrypted stuff, they reportedly retain indefinitely.

According to Russ Tice, the NSA has been conducting full-take domestic content collection on everyone. In other words, not only metadata but full recordings and content of anything they can feasibly store—phone calls, text messages, internet conversations, video chat. Collecting on Americans in such a manner satisfies legal requirements because the very definition of collection has been twisted to effectively mean ac…

Yes, the NSA does do that. And they probably consider it to be their job, no matter what the damn civilians say.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#96

Post by 1001101 »

dbg31415 wrote: post #83

If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you. We'd need to understand what their definition of NSA, or collection, or emails are. I think it's most likely they are saying that the entire NSA as a whole isn't doing collection, only some subset of the NSA is... and maybe they define collection as capturing and retaining information for 10 years, and now they are only doing it for 9 years 11 months... and emails mea…

You forgot about World of Warcraft [1]

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/09/tech/web/nsa-spying-video-game...

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#97

Post by nebabyte »

jancsika wrote: post #17

We can't sensibly discuss this story here unless we know which definition of "collect" is being used in the story. Normal definition: collect. For example: "Even collected all the data going to and from Bob's house by putting a splitter on the cable." NSA's definition: not that, as cited in various stories sourced by the Snowden leaks from the Guardian. I won't attempt to define exactly how the NSA defines "collect"…

Good call. This is the country for which loopholes exist that basically allow any processed food product to claim being 'made with 100% chicken' [though not 100% of this product is that '100% chicken'] or 'Made with [a company called] 'Real'['s] cheese" or whatnot...

> 100% grated parmesan cheese. It's 100% grated. And there is parmesan cheese in it. Just not 100% cheese.

etc etc (via reddit this morning).

Can't really trust words that are picked to imply conclusions that are not legally being declared rigorously (and audited by some lawyer of an independent entity).

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#98

Post by HappyTypist »

engx wrote: post #43
jancsika wrote: post #17

We can't sensibly discuss this story here unless we know which definition of "collect" is being used in the story. Normal definition: collect. For example: "Even collected all the data going to and from Bob's house by putting a splitter on the cable." NSA's definition: not that, as cited in various stories sourced by the Snowden leaks from the Guardian. I won't attempt to define exactly how the NSA defines "collect"…

General Hayden was recently on Sam Harris' podcast and he briefly explained the 'retroactive collection' concept- https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/privacy-and-security I'd say his arguments appear clear and convincing, even to a skeptic like myself. I wonder what can be done to counter his seemingly perfect narrative so Americans can be rightfully concerned about what's happening. To be clear, I don't believe H…

Any transcripts / summaries?

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#100

Post by dbg31415 »

1001101 wrote: post #96
dbg31415 wrote: post #83

If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you. We'd need to understand what their definition of NSA, or collection, or emails are. I think it's most likely they are saying that the entire NSA as a whole isn't doing collection, only some subset of the NSA is... and maybe they define collection as capturing and retaining information for 10 years, and now they are only doing it for 9 years 11 months... and emails mea…

You forgot about World of Warcraft [1] [1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/09/tech/web/nsa-spying-video-game...

This is hilarious. That someone in the government was paid to watch Barrens Chat full of Chuck Norris jokes, debates about if STR or AGI was better for Enhancements Shaman, and links to in-game items that would make funny dildos really amuses me.

/1 Anal [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]!

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