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Goodbye Amazon

princeton-audio.com

101–110 of 139 posts

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#101
post #72

This is one of those posts that would be more impactful with the Amazon emails embedded in the post. When you can have the bad guy in the piece playing their own part it really resonates, if you're reading PA consider just putting in their responses to your questions. The only nit on this is this bit: "The only way to meet their demands would have been to mass-produce huge volumes of speakers featuring no customizati…

If you think down this path, that craftmanship needs a very fast route to market, and it's going to be a very big industry - with the capitalistic logic, you end up with solutions like drone transport, automated machines that create custom things fast, and robots/ai to test products. And you probably also end up with manufacturing clusters doing most of the work - and not in small towns spread around, but maybe still…

I don't know about the speed. I do know that craftsmanship needs a big market (because the number of people who are willing to pay the extra cost are a subset of the whole market). I'm more interested in understanding three things;

1) A market maker that can create the visibility / confidence that allows a high touch bespoke market to exist (sort of eBay or Amazon or Alibaba for craft people. I thought this might be Tindie at one point but that doesn't seem to be their focus at this stage.)

2) An infrastructure/raw materials market for the craft people. I've seen this with people who do this sort of custom work that finding suppliers is a huge issue and qualifying them and working with them.

3) Tooling and engineering services, where each craftsperson requires a specific set of tools which are by definition low volume but also high tolerance precision kit. My Dad's engraving setup for example was put together with "the" engraving vice, and "the" compressor, and "the" engraving tool and bits. The company that makes all of the tooling is facilitated by an engravers guild which has a large number of members which provides an economical place for the tool manufacturer to serve, but is it possible to create a business that can make bespoke tools at a price that allows the person purchasing them to recover the costs in a reasonable amount of time?

Fundamentally, I am asking whether it is possible to build a "factory" that is not so specialized that it could supply the needs of a variety of users in different activities. Could we build such a facility in a 'small town' and be able to staff it? Or put another way, what is the smallest unit of economic self sufficiency given a global shipping market.

I'm having a hard time expressing this clearly but consider the following analogy/question. Let's say you have a town, SmallVille, that has a functional economy because there is a car parts factory that employs 1/3 of the working aged people. Their salaries go, in part, to shopping for groceries, haircuts, meals out, movies, etc, which employs a second third of the working aged people, and those businesses and the local governance employs the remaining third. Its a nice small town, everyone has a job, and life is good.

Now historically, we've seen that car parts factory close because car parts could be made cheaper elsewhere and the entire economy of the town collapses as you get 1/3 of the population out of work and so competeing with the remaining 2/3rds for their jobs, and without that money coming in the number of services businesses that are needed goes down so there are actually fewer of the remaining jobs available, which further crushes the life out of the town.

Basically without that parts plant feeding money into the town in exchange for car parts the town fails. So can we replace that car parts factory with a factory that can reasonably serve a much wider variety of needs? Can we create a nexus of production which is dynamically assignable to what ever is needed?

My thesis is that if you can crack that nut, and create such a facility, then you can create a 'fractal' economy, one which is geographically distributed and yet nimble in the face of changing economic output needs. Can a car company publish a 'spec' to any of these universal factories and say "I need 600,000 door knobs like this." and get various amounts from 1k to perhaps 100K from a number of factories with good quality control that would depend only on scheduling factory time. And yes, I know this hasn't been accomplished before (hence the 'it may be impossible') and yes I've dealt with trying to get two manufacturers building the same part such that you couldn't tell which factory made the part when you were assembling systems (in that case it was front panels for NetApp filers but I'm sure there are similar stories from anyone who has built product) it is really really hard and maybe not possible. The reward though would be tremendous, a 'factory on demand' of arbitrary size would be to goods production what AWS was to information technology company production.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#102
post #37

Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, using their preferred tonewoods, choice of hardware, as well as other unique customizations. ... The only way to meet their demands would have been to mass-produce huge volumes of speakers featuring no customizations. How is Amazon even possibly a good place to sell this kind of an item? People overwhelmingly go…

Actually, it looks like they are making nice wood cabinets for cheap low-quality parts: - a "full range" 3" speaker is about $7, quantity 1. - a 20W at 10% THD class D amplifier with bluetooth input is $25, retail. (Yes, that's a terrible spec. It's what Princeton claims.) - a battery is $8 - a few dollars for a fancy knob and grille. So they are charging about $300 for their cabinets and integration of all the above…

This is hilariously bad. An "audiophile" speaker manufacturer lovingly handcrafts genuine wooden cabinets, then proceeds to fill them with the cheapest possible components acquired from AliExpress...

With those kind of margins, they can probably afford to flood Amazon FCs with thousands of these things and still make a profit, despite carrying excess inventory.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#103
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a huge amazon customer and fan. Thank you for mentioning Amazon Handmade ... I had no idea it existed. How odd is that? I don't think I've seen an email from them about it and it never shows in product searches.

It's quite new. It does show up for some product searches but to really surface it you have to know it exists. Same thing with Custom.

Amazon Handmade is nearly 2 years old.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#104
post #91

There seems to be a lot of negativity about this. They Site-1 product they make looks beautiful and is made in the US. I really applaud them for doing this and I wish more companies would. Making beautiful long lasting products. If you've got a beautiful casing to the speakers you can upgrade internal components and that looks like one of the things they offer. If nothing else then hopefully this post will prevent ot…

The negativity is born of knowing something about speaker design. Their product is massively overpriced for what it is. "Tonewoods" are the literaly opposite of what you want in a material for speaker cabinets. For as much time as they spend bashing on cheap speakers from china, if you did a side by side comparison of their product vs other options at the same price point, you'll quickly discover the limitations of a crappy 3" full range and a dirt cheap IC amp from TI.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#105
post #98
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...so it looks like Amazon has their hands in other areas besides distribution of mass manufactured parts. For your 3 examples, I clicked on "Explore the store" and of the dozen or so random items I clicked on, it was 1 to 3 days delivery. I also found a wooden cutting board that you could personalize with a customer name (laser etching) and that was 3 to 6 business days. I didn't see any item that said 6 weeks for…

>I didn't see any item that said 6 weeks of delivery like Etsy has. I'm no Amazon Homemade expert, but there are plenty of items that say they take time to make: * Usually takes between 21 and 30 days to create https://www.amazon.com/Live-Edge-Dining-Conference-Table/dp/... * Usually takes between 21 and 30 days to create https://www.amazon.com/Omondi-Odhuno-Originals-Traditional-M... * Usually takes between 21 and 3…

>...although I didn't find anything over 30 days, FWIW.

Because on the seller's page when data-entering the product's details, the maximum value allowed is "30 days". Princeton Audio wants "42 days".

Also, none of your examples have the valuable imprimatur: "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."

PA wants a combination of "audience reach" + "flexible logistics" that Amazon doesn't currently offer.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#106
Amazon, a platform optimized to deliver mass-produced goods quickly and cheaply, is not up to the needs of a company that ships custom artisanal speakers handcrafted using centuries-old speaker-making techniques from a Piedmontese village. Color me surprised. Maybe try Etsy?

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#107
post #4

>Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, [...] If all goes smoothly, this process takes about six weeks. >Amazon relentlessly pushed us to accept lead-times that were typically only four days, and sometimes demanded fulfillment of orders in as little as 24 hours--including delivery. Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week c…

I think what you said about keeping some popular, prebuilt configurations on Amazon makes perfect sense. I am not sure why they decided to entirely cut off Amazon.

I have ordered products from Amazon that haven taken over a month to arrive. I am not sure why Amazon rush these folks. I think Amazon is fucking up here by trying to appear as a faster delivery solution over a quality of product solution.

I think combining both, allowing for sale of pre-made, popular products, as well as allowing longer windows for custom built speakers is a solution that will work for both parties.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#108
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say they're not crap because they're Chinese. Cheap is top of most peoples wish list when shopping and China can do cheap. Cheap tends to be the enemy of quality.

Would you not agree that a large proportion of cheap manufacturing comes from China?

I'm not who you asked, but I would say that yes, this is true, but it's also much better quality than similarly priced items from the US. Much better.

So it's actually true that we're flooded with cheap crap from China and that the production quality of those items is better than from elsewhere. (For the same price range.)

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#109
> I'll repeat that: Amazon.com, a reseller, told us that we were not allowed to raise the price of our own product for any reason. It was not open for discussion. In fact, the one and only time that anyone at Princeton Audio ever spoke in person to anyone from Amazon.com was the day we ended our relationship with them over the phone. Prior to that, our Amazon buyer had refused to ever reply to any of our questions or requests for support. Like I said, nice folks, huh?

Sounds like Amazon needs to change their practices on dealing with manufacturer and let go of some people.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#110

This is a just an ad or marketing stunt for the company. As most of you pointed out, they picked the wrong distributor for their business model. Now they are mad and severing relationships. However, 75% of the article is about their company and their handcrafted products. Then they offer a discount at the bottom tells you everything you need to know what this is really about. This is a publicity and marketing stunt.

proposition: every intentional public statement by a business is a 'publicity and marketing stunt'.
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