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Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

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Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A year is not long enough. It is for trivial projects, but not for things which require more under the hood.

I see a cottage industry forming: launch "startup", get credits to attract talent etc, on day n+1 (n is business age limit) acquired by large company. (The entire time they are working on project for one customer of course)

Complete with "startup" wages.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A considerable portion of the US sees government spending primarily through the lens of direct morality. So hand wavy concerns about undermining the virtue of work end up blocking spending with clear long term net benefits.

But the EITC adds to the virtue of work. It actually increases they payment for your salary increasing (to a point obviously). It straight supports the philosophy the more you work the more you should get paid. I think the problem might be that it is too well liked by both sides and neither side is willing to give the other a win, even if it a win for themselves too. I hate politics.

Wouldn't it work out to subsidizing the employers?

My expectation would be that employers would offer lower wages so that employees will have roughly the same take-home pay.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#53
post #45
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax. Right, which is a flat, or proportional, tax.

It's not really proportional, which is why it hurts the most. Wealthy people (who don't buy extravagant things) have most of the same basic expenses as the poor, and the sales tax can really be seen as a regressive income tax that eats up a larger portion of the income of the poor.

And the flat tax proposal is the same.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#54
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

#4 UK(7.4/1000) does have over 3x the rate of new bussness per person than the US (2.28 /1000) which ranks #32 and is mostly behind countries with a stronger social safety net. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b... Now, if you mean startups as a specific type of new and arguably lower risk business backed by VC money. That has more to do with VC funding than people willing to take risks.

Is that data (New businesses/yr/capita) available for California specifically?

For example, measures of economic mobility (ability for persons to traverse up the economic class system) are dismal for the U.S. as a whole. But for California specifically we're more-or-less on-par with the best nations. At least, that's what I remember from the RadioLab podcast on the subject. I've always been more skeptical of U.S. wide statistics since then.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#55
post #19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a negative income tax with a flat rate above/below a threshold. The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax.

> The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax. Right, which is a flat, or proportional, tax.

> Right, which is a flat, or proportional, tax.

It's not a flat tax on income, since marginal spending declines with income.

Every tax can be construed as flat relative to some measure.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#56
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

#4 UK(7.4/1000) does have over 3x the rate of new bussness per person than the US (2.28 /1000) which ranks #32 and is mostly behind countries with a stronger social safety net. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b... Now, if you mean startups as a specific type of new and arguably lower risk business backed by VC money. That has more to do with VC funding than people willing to take risks.

There seem to be some clear flaws with the causal reasoning there.

For example, Cyprus is rocking that chart, but isn't a country with a particularly strong welfare system -- the reason it's on top is because it's a popular destination jurisdiction, not because it's a cradle of entrepreneurial spirit. Malta's in a similar boat.

Also, strength of social welfare system is not predictive; for example, Sweden is below the average of EU, OECD and NATO countries.

Finally, Singapore scores quite well, and while it probably has somewhat of a destination jurisdiction effect, it is hardly a welfare state.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#57
post #50

No, they aren't. Massive corporations are America's job engine.

exactly.. The point of a startup is to utilize technologies so that they can run more efficiently than big corporations, thus giving them a competitive advantage and an economical one as well.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a third factor - collectivist vs individualist culture.

If you look at the rankings of new business formation, that factor does not seem as strong as Americans might guess. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b... The US is below the average for wealthy countries, and ranked 32.

There appear to be some serious flaws in a causal argument from that data; see my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14221542 for more details.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#59
post #47

Lower the taxes and don't let government get their hands on it at any stage of the process. This smacks again of redistribution of wealth and I'm totally against this.

> Lower the taxes and don't let government get their hands on it at any stage of the process. This smacks again of redistribution of wealth and I'm totally against this.

Brilliant! I'm sure that startups will flourish in an environment where there is no functioning government. What I don't understand is why the movie Mad Max didn't show a vibrant startup community with flowing rivers of lattes and soylent, rather than the human misery that comes from the absence of rule of law, retirement, and health care.

Serious question, do you really want to live in a world devoid of "redistribution of wealth", where life is cheap, the working class is treated like disposable trash, and treatable illnesses are a death sentence?

What would it take to convince you that the wealthy contributing some of their riches back to society is the foundation for a functioning civilization?

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#60
post #56
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#4 UK(7.4/1000) does have over 3x the rate of new bussness per person than the US (2.28 /1000) which ranks #32 and is mostly behind countries with a stronger social safety net. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b... Now, if you mean startups as a specific type of new and arguably lower risk business backed by VC money. That has more to do with VC funding than people willing to take risks.

There seem to be some clear flaws with the causal reasoning there. For example, Cyprus is rocking that chart, but isn't a country with a particularly strong welfare system -- the reason it's on top is because it's a popular destination jurisdiction, not because it's a cradle of entrepreneurial spirit. Malta's in a similar boat. Also, strength of social welfare system is not predictive; for example, Sweden is below th…

Sweden is still well above the US and if many countries all have strong safety nets one of them has to be on the bottom of that list. But sure, if you remove countries with less than 10 million you are going to end up with fewer outsiders on lists like this.

However, the US is relatively far down on this list relative the way we talk about it as a bastion of innovation. I mean we are just above France which does not fit the narrative about strong worker protections preventing new businesses.

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