Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 87 posts

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#31

Post by mgkimsal »

Retric wrote: post #13
twoodfin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

#4 UK(7.4/1000) does have over 3x the rate of new bussness per person than the US (2.28 /1000) which ranks #32 and is mostly behind countries with a stronger social safety net. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b... Now, if you mean startups as a specific type of new and arguably lower risk business backed by VC money. That has more to do with VC funding than people willing to take risks.

Thanks! My in-laws from the UK had started and run multiple businesses over 30+ years in the UK (generally small - usually 2-8 employees). Health insurance was one thing they never even had to think about. Of course, there were other issues, but health care wasn't one.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#32

Post by maxerickson »

jnordwick wrote: post #28
BatFastard wrote: post #20

For me the question is who CREATES jobs. Startups create jobs, big corporations acquire then shed jobs. As a multi-startup founder, I think the earned income tax credit is brilliant. That along with a universal healthcare system would allow millions of people to take a greater risk in creating new companies.

The EITC is awesome. It is well established from many policy organizations as the most effective anti poverty (for current AND future generations) program we have today. It was wildly popular in conservative circles even. But somehow the success of it is never built on. It baffles me.

A considerable portion of the US sees government spending primarily through the lens of direct morality.

So hand wavy concerns about undermining the virtue of work end up blocking spending with clear long term net benefits.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#33

Post by neuronexmachina »

pembrook wrote: post #15
twoodfin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

Yes they do. However, the cultural and business environments in European nations are often different so it's not a perfect comparison. For example, in most countries you can't just start taking payments and call yourself a "sole proprietor." Creating a business involves money and time which can also be a deterrent. A better study that could represent the effects it would have in the US looked at rates of entrepreneur…

I think a closer cultural/business parallel to the US that also has universal healthcare might be Singapore. I know they have a vibrant startup scene, but I don't know of any quantitative comparisons.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#34

Post by jnordwick »

maxerickson wrote: post #32
jnordwick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EITC is awesome. It is well established from many policy organizations as the most effective anti poverty (for current AND future generations) program we have today. It was wildly popular in conservative circles even. But somehow the success of it is never built on. It baffles me.

A considerable portion of the US sees government spending primarily through the lens of direct morality. So hand wavy concerns about undermining the virtue of work end up blocking spending with clear long term net benefits.

But the EITC adds to the virtue of work. It actually increases they payment for your salary increasing (to a point obviously).

It straight supports the philosophy the more you work the more you should get paid.

I think the problem might be that it is too well liked by both sides and neither side is willing to give the other a win, even if it a win for themselves too. I hate politics.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#35

Post by CM30 »

nostrademons wrote: post #21
mmgutz wrote: post #4

What differentiates a startup from a normal business? A standup desk?

"The ability to grow really fast." -- Paul Graham More specifically, we normally think of startups as businesses where you can do the work once and then sell it multiple times, while in a normal small business or consulting shop, you have to do the work for each customer. There's a pretty big grey area - enterprise software companies often need a significant amount of customization for each customer, while with the s…

I think it's just as simple as a company that can grow really fast, usually backed by some form of venture capital. Otherwise you'd be saying a simple product/service bysiness is a startup, since someone selling a forum script or web hosting is also 'doing the work once and selling it multiple times'.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#37

Post by bdcravens »

BatFastard wrote: post #23
basseq wrote: post #10

This is just EITC expansion / very low "basic income". There's nothing about "for startups" here, except that "poor founders on ramen noodles would benefit". Note also that "start-up" in the original study means "firms [less than a year old]".

A year is not long enough. It is for trivial projects, but not for things which require more under the hood.

I see a cottage industry forming: launch "startup", get credits to attract talent etc, on day n+1 (n is business age limit) acquired by large company. (The entire time they are working on project for one customer of course)

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#38

Post by Avshalom »

nostrademons wrote: post #21
mmgutz wrote: post #4

What differentiates a startup from a normal business? A standup desk?

"The ability to grow really fast." -- Paul Graham More specifically, we normally think of startups as businesses where you can do the work once and then sell it multiple times, while in a normal small business or consulting shop, you have to do the work for each customer. There's a pretty big grey area - enterprise software companies often need a significant amount of customization for each customer, while with the s…

"temporary organization designed to search for a repeatable and scalable business model" -- Steve Blank.

That said I pretty much agree with the others: ping pong tables and negative unit economics make a start up.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#39

Post by robotresearcher »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #12
twoodfin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

There's a third factor - collectivist vs individualist culture.

If you look at the rankings of new business formation, that factor does not seem as strong as Americans might guess.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b...

The US is below the average for wealthy countries, and ranked 32.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#40

Post by evanpw »

maxerickson wrote: post #32
jnordwick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EITC is awesome. It is well established from many policy organizations as the most effective anti poverty (for current AND future generations) program we have today. It was wildly popular in conservative circles even. But somehow the success of it is never built on. It baffles me.

A considerable portion of the US sees government spending primarily through the lens of direct morality. So hand wavy concerns about undermining the virtue of work end up blocking spending with clear long term net benefits.

Up to a certain point, EITC payments increase as income increases, so it actually encourages work among low-wage employees. (Of course, it phases out at higher incomes, which discourages work).
Post reply on HN