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Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

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Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#11

Post by stiva »

tmaly wrote: post #2

I still think $6000 is a large amount in some sense for someone just getting started. I would much rather see this along with a flat tax. The recent discussion on here about USFacts.org highlighted that revenue was growing in proportion to population. What someone had said is that it makes the case for a much simpler tax system. We spend 6 billion man hours a year on taxes in the US. Is that really the best use of ou…

There has never really been a compelling scheme for a flat tax that solves the problem inherent to it -- that a flat tax hurts those with a lower ability-to-pay.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#12

Post by ThrustVectoring »

twoodfin wrote: post #9
specialist wrote: post #7

Whereas $6000 is a nice (modest) incentive, the lack of universal health care is the greatest barrier to entrepreneurship. Especially for parents (and wannabe parents).

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

There's a third factor - collectivist vs individualist culture.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#13

Post by Retric »

twoodfin wrote: post #9
specialist wrote: post #7

Whereas $6000 is a nice (modest) incentive, the lack of universal health care is the greatest barrier to entrepreneurship. Especially for parents (and wannabe parents).

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

#4 UK(7.4/1000) does have over 3x the rate of new bussness per person than the US (2.28 /1000) which ranks #32 and is mostly behind countries with a stronger social safety net.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/New-b...

Now, if you mean startups as a specific type of new and arguably lower risk business backed by VC money. That has more to do with VC funding than people willing to take risks.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#14

Post by sandworm101 »

mmgutz wrote: post #4

What differentiates a startup from a normal business? A standup desk?

Part of my job is telling clients to abandon the startup mentality. When you have 100 employees, two buildings and a defense contract, you can no longer play fast with regulations. That rep from the japanese air force (hypo) wont forgive a lack of compliance paperwork because you needed room for an arcade.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#15

Post by pembrook »

twoodfin wrote: post #9
specialist wrote: post #7

Whereas $6000 is a nice (modest) incentive, the lack of universal health care is the greatest barrier to entrepreneurship. Especially for parents (and wannabe parents).

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

Yes they do. However, the cultural and business environments in European nations are often different so it's not a perfect comparison. For example, in most countries you can't just start taking payments and call yourself a "sole proprietor." Creating a business involves money and time which can also be a deterrent.

A better study that could represent the effects it would have in the US looked at rates of entrepreneurship before and after people become eligible for Medicaid (age 65). After controlling for all other factors they still saw a sizable increase, and the 65+ age group is certainly far less likely to be first time entrepreneurs than younger age groups:

https://thinkprogress.org/universal-health-insurance-boosts-...

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#16

Post by specialist »

twoodfin wrote: post #9
specialist wrote: post #7

Whereas $6000 is a nice (modest) incentive, the lack of universal health care is the greatest barrier to entrepreneurship. Especially for parents (and wannabe parents).

If that were the greatest barrier, wouldn't nations with universal health care see higher rates of entrepreneurship? I don't have numbers, but at least anecdotally it doesn't seem to be the case. Is the U.K. startup culture particularly impressive?

I will concede there are multiple factors. Lack of access to capital, winner takes all (pro-corporate) Freedom Markets[tm] decimating competition, etc.

New business (and therefor new job) creation in the USA has tanked. Especially in rural areas.

However we got here, what is the fix?

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#17

Post by lend000 »

stiva wrote: post #11
tmaly wrote: post #2

I still think $6000 is a large amount in some sense for someone just getting started. I would much rather see this along with a flat tax. The recent discussion on here about USFacts.org highlighted that revenue was growing in proportion to population. What someone had said is that it makes the case for a much simpler tax system. We spend 6 billion man hours a year on taxes in the US. Is that really the best use of ou…

There has never really been a compelling scheme for a flat tax that solves the problem inherent to it -- that a flat tax hurts those with a lower ability-to-pay.

Not a negative income tax with a flat rate above/below a threshold. The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#18

Post by Shivetya »

Instead of calling it a corporate tax cut I would prefer to state it as equalization among competing jurisdictions. Meaning, even Canada runs a 15% tax rate and brings in more by percentage of GDP than the US does with a 35% rate.

Its pretty dishonest in linking new jobs as the metric to make startups look better than corporations when its always been small business which employs the most and works through more people than start ups.

Plus the idea of lowering the tax rate is to give the big players a reason to bring the money back here instead of sitting overseas.

We did it before and the treasury benefited, other countries have done it as well; see Canada which went to 15%. So please tell me how we justify more than twice that rate????

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#19

Post by stiva »

lend000 wrote: post #17
stiva wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has never really been a compelling scheme for a flat tax that solves the problem inherent to it -- that a flat tax hurts those with a lower ability-to-pay.

Not a negative income tax with a flat rate above/below a threshold. The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax.

> The tax that hurts the poor the most is obviously the sales tax.

Right, which is a flat, or proportional, tax.

Re: Startups are America’s job engine, so give workers tax credits

#20

Post by BatFastard »

For me the question is who CREATES jobs. Startups create jobs, big corporations acquire then shed jobs.

As a multi-startup founder, I think the earned income tax credit is brilliant. That along with a universal healthcare system would allow millions of people to take a greater risk in creating new companies.

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