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DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

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Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#121

Post by Shivetya »

rayiner wrote: post #116
dev_head_up wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'd believe anyone who said they do job "for the good of the economy." It's a laughable statement really.

I think this view is very wrong. Lots of people take pride in the fact that they're doing some socially valuable job. That might not be their primary motivation but it's an important one.

Most of those are in the service, police, fire, or rescue. being a delivery driver (pilots are a form) and making such statements is just an odd romanticism or at least a bad attempt at making the job seem more important than it is.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#123

Post by badpenny »

etherael wrote: post #12
latch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think transportation is an incredibly important (food!), but the way this is written seems incredibly tone-deaf. He should have focused on the facts (if there are any) about incident rates and length of time flying, instead of saying how his dream of connecting "our great country with the rest of the world" is being jeopardized.

To be fair, the emotional approach is what actually works in the vast majority of cases. Normal people don't connect with or understand facts. I think this might be a case of content audience mismatch.

> Normal people don't connect with or understand facts.

I consider myself and, almost by definition, most of the people I know to be normal and I can assure you us plebians are perfectly capable of understanding facts.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#124

Post by specialist »

noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

There have been many first hand accounts from pilots about their industry's deteriorating work conditions. The denial and pedantry by the Freedom Market™ zealots is exhausting.

Being highly trained and performing safety critical work does not exempt pilots from the predation of C (executive management) level exploitation.

The root cause is the glut of labor, progressively reducing Labor's bargaining power, since the 70s.

What is the fix?

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#125

Post by rsynnott »

dev_head_up wrote: post #75
dx034 wrote: post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

I don't think I'd believe anyone who said they do job "for the good of the economy." It's a laughable statement really.

Directors of Central Banks/Federal Reserve etc, perhaps. But yeah, pretty much no-one.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#126

Post by rayiner »

Shivetya wrote: post #121
rayiner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this view is very wrong. Lots of people take pride in the fact that they're doing some socially valuable job. That might not be their primary motivation but it's an important one.

Most of those are in the service, police, fire, or rescue. being a delivery driver (pilots are a form) and making such statements is just an odd romanticism or at least a bad attempt at making the job seem more important than it is.

You're confusing fungibility for importance. While one particular delivery driver or pilot may be less important than one particular "rockstar programmer," society is much more reliant on delivery drivers and pilots as a group than on programmers. That may change with automation but we're not there yet.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#127

Post by Retric »

specialist wrote: post #124
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

There have been many first hand accounts from pilots about their industry's deteriorating work conditions. The denial and pedantry by the Freedom Market™ zealots is exhausting. Being highly trained and performing safety critical work does not exempt pilots from the predation of C (executive management) level exploitation. The root cause is the glut of labor, progressively reducing Labor's bargaining power, since the…

Better tax policy could do a lot.

Our regressive tax policy is currently funneling economic growth to an ever smaller pool of people who simply don't need as many people to work for them (directly + indirectly). If the lower/middle class kept more of their paycheck they would spend more on services which would employ more people.

Further, the economic death spiral of fewer people with disposable income => reduced demand => fewer people with disposable income => ... can be avoided.

PS: Remember, we are fairly close to 'full' employment so it does not take much to shift the balance one way or another.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#128

Post by chx »

throwaway91111 wrote: post #67
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/automation-myths/

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#129

Post by coldtea »

noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

>the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker.

Maybe if those same commenters lost their relatives or kids in an accident with a commercial pilot that was forced to fly to exhaustion, they'd answer with better sense.

Bonus points if they lost them because a cargo plane fell on them...

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#130

Post by specialist »

Retric wrote: post #127
specialist wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many first hand accounts from pilots about their industry's deteriorating work conditions. The denial and pedantry by the Freedom Market™ zealots is exhausting. Being highly trained and performing safety critical work does not exempt pilots from the predation of C (executive management) level exploitation. The root cause is the glut of labor, progressively reducing Labor's bargaining power, since the…

Better tax policy could do a lot. Our regressive tax policy is currently funneling economic growth to an ever smaller pool of people who simply don't need as many people to work for them (directly + indirectly). If the lower/middle class kept more of their paycheck they would spend more on services which would employ more people. Further, the economic death spiral of fewer people with disposable income => reduced dem…

Agree. I support any measure that keeps money moving. Including cashectomies for windfall profits.

But why, in the name of fairness, isn't the surplus shared with all the stakeholders?

We wouldn't be in this pickle to begin with if profit sharing was the norm. Like when I was kid.

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