Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 164 posts

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#101

Post by dx034 »

Dwolb wrote: post #78

A few thoughts here. 1) DHL started in the US in 1969 and became German owned a little after 2002 (it has a pretty cool origin story where the founder felt there was a better way to deliver overnight goods to Hawaii than to literally sit a person on a plane and stuff legal documents in his luggage. He used his student loans to... "bootstrap"). IMO the article loses some credibility by using "foreign competition" verb…

And worth pointing out that this is a very rare case where subcontractors are not used because it's cheaper. DHL is legally not allowed to own an airline which flies domestically within the US. Works the other way around (Fedex and UPS have EU flights) but no European airline can fly within the US.

I'm quite sure that otherwise, they'd fly themselves as they own all airlines flying for them within the EU and Asia (except the ones that also fly to US).

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#102

Post by dx034 »

hblanks wrote: post #14

A couple things to consider: * Hour restrictions for passenger transport are significantly more stringent than for freight. * Southern Air's fleet consists 737s and 777s -- not small planes. * These plans have to fly over and into major metropolitan areas. * Many parts of flying can be automated, but in the end, and for aircraft this size, you probably want a human operator in the plane for the sheer reason that they…

You're right. But as always in history, these changes can't come by asking companies nicely. You either need a strong union that is willing to strike (and Southern actually has one) and/or federal regulators.

Why are hour restrictions different for freight than passenger? Adapting this would probably already change much. And a strike at Prime Air for a few weeks during holiday season should also help improving conditions.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#103

Post by Pica_soO »

noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

If empathy was a job requirement, half of us would be stoned and the other part would be on his way to the server-center with a truck full of TNT.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#104

Post by dx034 »

pyvpx wrote: post #57
Aeolun wrote: post #2

Not entirely sure what he's talking about. Seems like he should have a word with Southwestern Air instead of blaming DHL and Amazon. While they undoubtedly contribute, putting all the blame on their shoulders seems a bit silly.

is Southwestern Air really independent when the largest shareholder is DHL, and DHL owns and leases the planes to Southwestern? Even if you can claim the board or management of Southwestern is "independent" what, exactly, can they do? all their inputs are literally owned by DHL.

Why not allow foreign airlines to fly domestic US routes? DHL would buy the other 51% and make the ownership clear. They only have to use these vague relationships because of US regulation that tries to protect domestic players.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2014/01/05/ell...

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#105

Post by dx034 »

theprop wrote: post #40

During back-to-back flights of 23 hours, are the pilots able to sleep for any significant amount of time? How often are they asked to take the marathon flights? More details would be helpful...it's not clear if this is a new norm from the article.

There will have been 3 pilots on board. One can always rest so that you don't get over the maximum time. 23 hours is still at the limit of what you can do with 3 pilots. For passenger planes, you would've probably needed 4 pilots.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#106

Post by dx034 »

krzrak wrote: post #94

How it is even possible for pilots to fly 23 hours straight? I am pretty sure there are some regulations limiting pilot's working time for safety reasons.

As in every passenger flight >~10 hours, there was a third pilot on board so that they could rotate.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#107

Post by dx034 »

ars wrote: post #4

Summary of article: I want more money. Why do cargo planes even need pilots? He isn't likely to get more money - instead his job is likely to be automated away.

Because you don't want to experience a bug in the automatic flight while the 777 is above a major city.

Self driving cars will come soon, self driving planes won't come for decades. The risk of losing >1000 lives because of one bug or hack doesn't justify the cost savings.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#108

Post by dx034 »

yAnonymous wrote: post #71
artumi-richard wrote: post #15

That reference about DHL being German doesn't sit nicely with me. Germany is much more socialist than the USA.

Are we? The health insurance system is corrupt and medical services are arguably on the decline. When you don't have money or a job, you can get basic benefits and in return get treated like a dog. For many people that is still better than in their home countries, so they come here. The middle class is getting smaller, because they're the ones paying for all this. Is milking the middle class from all ends socialist?…

If you're from Germany, go to a US hospital once to get a basic treatment. Then look at the bill and think about the argument of a corrupt insurance system. Because as a German, you'll likely never have seen how much a doctor or hospital actually charge a patient.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#109

Post by TeMPOraL »

dev_head_up wrote: post #75
dx034 wrote: post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

I don't think I'd believe anyone who said they do job "for the good of the economy." It's a laughable statement really.

I can imagine people honestly believing that. So many jobs today are utter bullshit, and so many more are enough layers of abstraction away from anything useful than it's hard to find any motivation other than paycheck. And there are many people who would like to feel they're contributing to something, not just selling their time for currency.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#110

Post by jim-jim-jim »

dx034 wrote: post #97
noir-york wrote: post #65

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

I think the lack of empathy is because cargo pilots flying for Amazon still have it much better than warehouse workers. Both job wise (nicer to fly than to pack) and with regards to the pay. Aviation is one of the most regulated sectors in both the US and worldwide. The reason why DHL uses subcontractors is not because they want to save money, they aren't allowed to fly in the US. Which is somehow interesting because…

> It then still sucks having to be in an aircraft for 23h, but he didn't have to work for 23h straight

If you're away from what you'd rather be doing at the company's discretion, you're working.

Post reply on HN