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New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

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Re: New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

#151
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your citation does not support the "decisively predates agriculture" claim, and in fact refers to early agriculture at the site as one of the competing interpretations.

Göbekli Tepe was built ~11,500 years ago, and it probably isn't a coincidence that early agriculture was developed in the same area -- about 1,000 years later. The early agriculture reference that you mention concerns the fact that the was abandoned as early agriculture started to take hold: > Around the beginning of the 8th millennium BCE Göbekli Tepe ("Potbelly Hill") lost its importance. The advent of agriculture…

Perhaps I am going too far with my speculation, but GT strikes me on two aspects as being highly unusual, with regard to what I "know"[1] about hunter-gatherer societies.

1. The site seems to be built with a plan. Maybe they did not use paper and pencil, maybe they were using some kind of sand table[2]. And there was a number of people involved, who were quite good at stone cutting, and on a large scale. Just have a look at central obelisk and pedestal [3] - those sharp edges, those smooth surfaces. Now, getting good at something requires daily practice, for a long period of time during which one would rather not go around for hunting. So not only there was a population of proto-carpenters but also societal structure to support them, at least for times of learning and construction work.

2. Even more unusual, the site seems to have been abandoned (evacuated?) in planned manner. Great effort has been made to cover it up with huge mass of soil mixed up with broken stones, as if to make it tougher against elements. This, for me, really stands out. AFAIK the norm is, when supporting culture "loses interest" in site maintainance (like, when all its members are dead), the site is being taken over and/or decaying and/or reused by next wave of humans. But not this time.

Quite fascinating.

[1] what I know is subject to change as time goes by and I get updates

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_table

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Göbekli_Tepe,_Urfa.jpg

Re: New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodons used to be everywhere. Finding a mastodon's bones is not that unusual, so is not compelling proof of the veracity of the legend.

As far as I remember the story was regarding a fairly specific segment of Bayou Carencro where the creature was said to have drowned, and is where the fossils were found. That makes it a bit more compelling than some Mastodon being unearthed in the general region.

That is some good evidence. But consider that if there are 1000 stories, and 1 turns out to have supporting evidence, does that mean the other 999 are reliable, too?

It's like the psychic who correctly predicted the last 7 presidential elections. One doesn't hear about the other psychics whose predictions didn't pan out.

Re: New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

#153
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't permanently inhabited, then it's not a city. There are the remains of massive camps in Russia built out of Mammoth bones and tusks that held many thousands of people, made possible by massive culls of migrating herds, but these are not permanent settlements either. Living permanently in the same place on a large scale is a completely different way of life compared to living a mainly nomadic life and gath…

Permanent populations are not a sign of civilization. Many religious sites today are sparsely populated except for once/twice a year, but we still have civilization. The Mongols were civilized even when they were raiding the entire old-world and establishing many dynasties. They had writing, religion, generals and well-organized armies, a bureaucracy, laws and customs, tariffs, etc, just not a single plot of land the…

>Many religious sites today are sparsely populated except for once/twice a year, but we still have civilization

Yes, but we don't have civilization because of those religious sites.

Re: New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

#154
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Permanent populations are not a sign of civilization. Many religious sites today are sparsely populated except for once/twice a year, but we still have civilization. The Mongols were civilized even when they were raiding the entire old-world and establishing many dynasties. They had writing, religion, generals and well-organized armies, a bureaucracy, laws and customs, tariffs, etc, just not a single plot of land the…

>Many religious sites today are sparsely populated except for once/twice a year, but we still have civilization Yes, but we don't have civilization because of those religious sites.

How do you know?

Re: New Evidence Suggests Humans Arrived in the Americas Earlier Than Thought

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodons used to be everywhere. Finding a mastodon's bones is not that unusual, so is not compelling proof of the veracity of the legend.

As far as I remember the story was regarding a fairly specific segment of Bayou Carencro where the creature was said to have drowned, and is where the fossils were found. That makes it a bit more compelling than some Mastodon being unearthed in the general region.

Going by Wikipedia the guy that related the story did so after the bones were found.
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