“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” -- Adam Smith
Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
241–250 of 258 posts
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#242Professional licensing of just about every kind serves one and one purpose only: Fatten someone's pocket and artificially restrict the labor supply to favor those already licensed. Period. You can certainly make an argument that it looks like he went out of his way to piss 'em off, but the fact that he could be charged for calling himself "an engineer" -- and the fact that we all have come to a point where we think i…
> but the fact that he could be charged for calling himself "an engineer" -- and the fact that we all have come to a point where we think it is something reasonable -- is so upsetting.
I'm "a doctor"; certainly I will see to that brain surgery for you.
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#243The chart he created shows he has more engineering skills than the beaurcrats running the Oregon Sate Boards. Another example of government employees being incompentant. Here's one quick example of cities shortening yellow lights for profits.[1] 1. https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-sho...
* bureaucrats * State * incompetent
On mobile. Not sure why my iPhone didn't catch those.
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
During college in Indiana, a couple of us software engineers wanted to take the state's "Professional Engineer" certification exam. Just to see how we'd do. We were told plainly, "you cannot register for the PE exam because the state of Indiana does not recognize software engineers as 'real engineers'". However, if we were Electrical Engineers and wrote embedded software, that would make us a "real engineer". They ex…
"real engineer" here. Computer Engineer freshly graduated from GT and looking for a job in embedded devices. I can tell you on the other side of the coin it's also annoying to be muddling through a sea of software "engineering" jobs to actually find one for an entry level engineer. I believe the problem is that software engineering started as a buzzword then got its degree paths. Also I am under the impression your c…
"curricula is nowhere near as rigorous as required for engineering" this depends on the degree. For a BA that's true, for a BS less so. For a BS, the first 2 years of math and science were virtually identical for all engineering/science/CS student at my uni. That included calc1-3, plus 1-2 semesters each of the "real" physics/bio/chem classes for sicence/engineering students. After that it got a lot more specialized though we still had to take some 400 level maths with the math majors. He was just trying to say "Look I know most people who write to you can't do rudimentary physics calculations, but I most certainly can"
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are being played. Jarlstrom was informed that he wasn't entitled to hold himself out as an engineer and agreed not to do so. The reasons not to do that are valid, for the simple reason that it pretends to a level of expertise he does not have, when trying to influence how public infrastructure is run. I have said many times that Jarlstrom could simply have pitched his idea without claiming to be an engineer. Why…
I couldn't care less if he's a licensed engineer or not, if he was calling himself one or not... I do care whether the traffic lights need fixing, what kind of fixing, if my local traffic lights suffer from the same issue and how it was troubleshooted. All the rest of this discussion is just wasting everybody's time. And it is only happening because someone didn't have the good judgment to not fine someone who was ob…
You should. If I start calling myself an engineer, and start making noise, about how some bridge or other needs to be retrofitted right this minute... My opinion on the matter is not as valid as that of an actual engineer. And you should probably not conclude that the bridge needs retorfitting, solely on my testimony.
It's like a product manager, with no understanding of how software is built, coming to your daily standup, and telling everyone about what compiler flags they should be using. All the while, calling themselves a programmer/software engineer. If your company isn't insane, it should censure him for that - especially if he said he'll stop doing it.
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are being played. Jarlstrom was informed that he wasn't entitled to hold himself out as an engineer and agreed not to do so. The reasons not to do that are valid, for the simple reason that it pretends to a level of expertise he does not have, when trying to influence how public infrastructure is run. I have said many times that Jarlstrom could simply have pitched his idea without claiming to be an engineer. Why…
I couldn't care less if he's a licensed engineer or not, if he was calling himself one or not... I do care whether the traffic lights need fixing, what kind of fixing, if my local traffic lights suffer from the same issue and how it was troubleshooted. All the rest of this discussion is just wasting everybody's time. And it is only happening because someone didn't have the good judgment to not fine someone who was ob…
[deleted]
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you go around claiming to be a doctor, but don't do anything related to being a doctor and in no way operate as a doctor, then presumably this isn't a crime to be fined. If you tell people you are not a doctor, and you do doctor things, then there's no misunderstanding, and nothing to fine But if you tell people you are a doctor (or let people think you are), when you are not, and you do doctory things, then there…
Don't use metaphor, because they're broken. In your metaphor "doctor" is a protected term in many jurisdictions, so merely claiming to be a medical doctor is a crime. And practising medicine without a licence is similarly illegal, even if you make it clear that you're not a doctor.
Plenty of 'alternative medicine' woo is practiced, without anyone involved claiming to be doctors. For the most part, nobody goes to jail.
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the last time, these are not separate issues and treating them as such is erroneous. Section 13 establishes the context in which the facts in section 14 were evaluated. I'm exhausted trying to explain this and frankly annoyed that I've wasted most of my afternoon trying to provide legal insight to people who refuse to listen to reason that contradicts their preconceptions. WHY do you think section 14 should be in…
While I understand your exhaustion, I wonder why they aren't suing companies providing certifications with 'Engineer' in the title. Say, Cisco Certified Engineer, MCSE, etc. It would seem that it would be a far more egregious violation to offer to certify someone as an engineer. Do they not go after the companies claiming to provide these resources as a service? I'm just wondering why it seems so selectively enforced…
This is another common misunderstanding. There is an "industrial exception" for engineers working under the umbrella of a corporation.
From Texas engineer board code (I think other states are similar): § 1001.057. Employee of Private Corporation or Business Entity (a) This chapter shall not be construed to apply to the activities of a private corporation or other business entity, or the activities of the full-time employees or other personnel under the direct supervision and control of the business entity, on or in connection with: (1) reasonable modifications to existing buildings, facilities, or other fixtures to real property not accessible to the general public and which are owned, leased, or otherwise occupied by the entity; or (2) activities related only to the research, development, design, fabrication, production, assembly, integration, or service of products manufactured by the entity. [Sections (b) and (c) omitted for clarity] (d) For purposes of this section, “products manufactured by the entity” also includes computer software, firmware, hardware, semiconductor devices, and the production, exploration, and transportation of oil and gas and related products.”
Meaning, engineers can perform engineering work for a company without being licensed.
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I understand your exhaustion, I wonder why they aren't suing companies providing certifications with 'Engineer' in the title. Say, Cisco Certified Engineer, MCSE, etc. It would seem that it would be a far more egregious violation to offer to certify someone as an engineer. Do they not go after the companies claiming to provide these resources as a service? I'm just wondering why it seems so selectively enforced…
This is another common misunderstanding. There is an "industrial exception" for engineers working under the umbrella of a corporation. From Texas engineer board code (I think other states are similar): § 1001.057. Employee of Private Corporation or Business Entity (a) This chapter shall not be construed to apply to the activities of a private corporation or other business entity, or the activities of the full-time em…
So I may sell myself as an "Engineer" to a company, but not the government? What if I'm asked my occupation during jury duty? Do I have to say, "code monkey" instead of "Software Engineer"? Perhaps "Meat Popsicle"
Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
True. Just because Oregon board has a narrow view of what the word 'engineer' means I do not think this gentleman should be harassed this way. I find this immoral. Another instance I can recount is here where a woman was banned from touching horses. http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/17/woman-could-go-to-jail-for...
He was previously warned, he accepted the warning and promised not to do it again... and then he of course did it again. What's your moral concern exactly?
My moral concern is some "board" gets to become the sole arbitrator of who is an "engineer". Ideally the board's warning must have been thrown into dustbin.