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Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

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Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#91

Post by defined »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #57
defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

Well said. I've worked at 3 start-ups and at all of them I've worked long, grueling hours with the most recent one I was doing at least 65 hours a week (typically longer especially with a 3+ hour commute). I became severely burned out to the point where I didn't want to look for work or do much of anything. I was depressed and had severe anxiety. I went to the hospital with an anxiety attack so strong that I literall…

Ha! Funny you say that. When I was laid off the job I was stuck at because of the visa situation, my colleagues thought I had gone insane because I was so obviously happy and smiling right after getting the news.

The fact is, it was such a huge relief to be shot of that dysfunction-personified environment that I thought, and I quote, "This is one of the best days of my life!"

The twist in the tail was that I had just received my permanent residence in the USA, and by laying me off, the company had been forced to forgive the many thousands of dollars in legal immigration fees I would have had to repay them, had I left voluntarily to seek other work.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#93

Post by defined »

skrebbel wrote: post #87
defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

I keep reading stories like these on HN, yet I don't know a single person who has experienced anything even remotely close to this. I don't live in the Bay Area. Are SV startups, in general, really this badly managed? If I add up all anecdata from reading HN comments about toxic work environments, I get the impression that 50% of the Valley is run like this. I have a hard time comprehending how this can happen.

I'm such a person, and it's not restricted to SV. My worst experiences were in the South East. I think that many startups, regardless of region, are poorly managed, especially as they go through the transition from startup to something bigger.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#94

Post by patrickdavey »

65543543 wrote: post #14

My heart goes out to the whole family. A while ago, a long long friend of mine suddenly messaged me out of the blue reminiscing on old times and stuff. I could sense something was amiss. I planned an impromptu trip to see him. I didn't bring anything up...we just chatted about the good old times, cracked a few inside jokes etc. He was visibly much better when I started back after a few days. We promised to be in touc…

Funny, I had a colleague who we all thought had cancer (terminal), fundraising had begun for treatmenet etc. Anyway another friend and I went over to see him one evening to play computer games and just hang out, as he seemed pretty down. During that time we were chatting about his cancer etc. and the subject of suicide came up. I (apparently) said that "I thought it was the cowards way out" (I do not feel that way any more I may say)

Anyway, apparently this stuck in his mind as he had been planning on committing suicide that evening. He never told me this, but it was relayed. Turned out the cancer was entirely made up as he wanted to have a legitimate excuse for committing suicide!

He's well now thankfully.

It's funny the tiny chancy things you can do that can have huge consequences.

My heart goes out to this family, and if you do have friends / colleagues that are down or talking darkly. Do reach out to them (however uncomfortable you may find the process), you might really make a difference.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#95

Post by TuringNYC »

Illniyar wrote: post #30

I think we are missing some information here: "All suggested that he leave his job, but he was adamant that he could not. " The question is why? what conditions need to occur where a man who most likely can get another job easily enough and who has switched jobs before decides that ending his life his a better course of action then switching jobs. They wrote that he eventually saw a psychiatrist, was he prescribed SS…

I know some people, especially women, in this situation right now. They are under tremendous stress at work, sometimes marginalized or bullied. But they are forced to stick through it due to equity agreements.

Leaving means some wont see their equity grants vest. Some may be forced into major tax payments if they leave (due to options.) And some lose it alltogether. The way these things work, sometimes you end up paying enormous taxes and still end up with largely illiquid equity, which may remain illiquid for years. It is hard enough to land a job where the equity is worth something. People stick it out because a liquidity event can be life changing and liberating.

I realize equity agreements are created for retention, but they have the unfortunate impact of keeping people in jobs when it is better for both employee and employer to part ways. Something needs to be done about that. I don't know what.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#96

Post by defined »

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #64

It's amazing how a toxic work environment can dismantle an otherwise perfectly fine human in a matter of months. For anyone who is reading this thinking it can't, I've seen a number of friends get completely demotivated and numb due to the circumstances of their work. Luckily all ended up finding better jobs, but the PTSD was real and took everyone a long time to shake off. I can totally believe this guy was a great…

Totally concur.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#97

Post by lovemenot »

onion2k wrote: post #22
handsomechad wrote: post #7

This is kind of ridiculous. My condolences to the bereaved and all that, but come on. High-paying jobs can often times be extremely stressful, and whenever I have worked in a pressure cooker environment I have often found myself questioning whether or not it is worth it to continue working there. Sometimes, the answer has been no, at which point I figured out my exit strategy. What I have not found myself questioning…

But I don't think it's a good precedent for an employer to be held responsible every time an employee self-harms. Why not? What is there to gain by employers not having a duty to look after the mental health of their employees?

Well there could be a strong disincentive to hire people who may be at risk, resulting in worse employment outcomes for some kinds of people. Also, more intrusive questioning for everyone at interview.

Then there's the question of fairness. Why should an employer be held accountable if they were not actually contributing to the problem by any reasonable definition.

The more that costs of regular employment increase, the more we will see stratified employment. Employers will substitute contract, offshore or just not hire to avoid those costs.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#98

Post by BinaryIdiot »

skrebbel wrote: post #87
defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

I keep reading stories like these on HN, yet I don't know a single person who has experienced anything even remotely close to this. I don't live in the Bay Area. Are SV startups, in general, really this badly managed? If I add up all anecdata from reading HN comments about toxic work environments, I get the impression that 50% of the Valley is run like this. I have a hard time comprehending how this can happen.

All of my experiences were on the East Coast. I don't think it's unique to the bay area I just think there is a larger concentration of start-ups so you'll hear about it more frequently but it can easily happen anywhere.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#99

Post by tribby »

tragic loss.

I wonder what would happen if companies with high-stress environments employed on-site counselors. even if employees have outside help already, as mr. thomas did, it's very difficult -- for so many reasons -- to approach HR or consider a medical leave due to stress or mental illness. maybe creating a less daunting first step could help. in general, getting employers more proactively involved in asking how their employees are doing -- and if they need time off to heal -- could go a long way. at a certain point, an individual's motivation or willpower will not turn a situation like this one around, but outside intervention still might. how do we effectively intervene sooner?

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