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Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

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Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#71

Post by toomuchtodo »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #60
toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, we should still strive to give that person alternatives. "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". -- Plato Edit: @aaron695: that is what I was trying to communicate

I think the point is we should be careful about "doing something" and then indulging in the satisfaction of "something has been done", especially if there is no evidence that the 'something' we pick is beneficial to anyone.

I would agree with you if the cost was high. Running a suicide prevention hotline strikes me as a low cost preventative measure, moreso if you get actuarial/gruesome and take into account someone's dollar value as a human being (mid to high six figures for most people).

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#73

Post by siculars »

My condolences to this persons family. May his memory be a blessing.

Ever hear the saying "where there's smoke, there's fire"? At this point I'd really have to evaluate whether or not Uber is the right kind of fit for anyone to be working there. There are other options.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#74

Post by schneid3306 »

Illniyar wrote: post #30

I think we are missing some information here: "All suggested that he leave his job, but he was adamant that he could not. " The question is why? what conditions need to occur where a man who most likely can get another job easily enough and who has switched jobs before decides that ending his life his a better course of action then switching jobs. They wrote that he eventually saw a psychiatrist, was he prescribed SS…

Getting a job "easily enough" is still a big risk to take when you own a home and have a wife and two kids. I was in a job that deteriorated to the point that it was making me so miserable I would get physically ill around 3-4pm on Sundays due to having to go to work on Monday. It took me about 5-7 months to get to the point where I quit.

It is not an easy step to take. I was 24-25, enrolled in a Master's program (easy enough to explain why I left without a job) living in a house that I was not paying rent for and had the full support of both my parents and my fiancé. I didn't want to be a burden to my family. I was scared it would take me another 7 months to find a job like it did when I graduated from college in 2010. I had bills to pay. All of that was overwhelming despite me logically knowing I would be fine and that I wouldn't starve or go homeless or miss a bill payment because my fiancé or parents had stated so.

I can only imagine the pressures he thought he faced at home if he felt like it was his responsibility to take care of his family. It was probably so overwhelming that he saw no other out.

It is hard to describe to someone who never experienced a job that is overwhelmingly and exclusively awful how much of an impact it makes on you. And I am not talking about a job that you don't like or don't enjoy. I mean a job that has zero redeeming qualities and a culture that is incredibly toxic. You feel like a failure at work. You are miserable. And you see an out (quitting) but if you quit (without a job) there are a whole bunch of questions. And in some ways those unknowns are even worse than the misery. But then you go back in the next day and go "no way the prospect of losing my home can be worse than this." Then you go home and it is "no way my job can be worse than losing my home and failing my wife and kids." And it both cases you realize that, yes, somehow, both of those statements are true. The job is more miserable than losing the home which is more miserable than the job which is more miserable than letting down my wife and kids which is more miserable than my job which is more miserable than...

... and suddenly you find yourself with a gun in the front seat of your car because there is nothing in life that is not miserable. Nothing.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#75

Post by zkms »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #33
joeblubaugh wrote: post #2

Please know that if you are feeling hopeless, like you are a failure, and that there is no recovering, there are people who will help you. You are not your job or your accomplishments, you are worth it and there are people who love you and will help you. In the Bay Area, call (415) 781-0500 to talk with someone who can help. http://www.sfsuicide.org/

If someone is in the state of mind of wanting to take their own life, will they desire to call to talk to a stranger on a hotline? "In spite of their popularity and attractiveness, so far there is no conclusive evidence on the effectiveness of suicide prevention hot lines and crise centres" (2004) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/

It goes beyond just hotlines (which IME are useless at best and actively harmful at worst (having law-enforcement called on you is no fun)) -- the suicide rate for the past 80ish years in US has remained remarkably flat, despite many advances in psychiatry: https://twitter.com/sarahdoingthing/status/68238219583987712...

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#76

Post by sundvor »

kfkhalili wrote: post #41

Does anyone think that this culture of extreme competitiveness and "working hard" benefits employers before it reaches the employees?

Surely, the question should be whether anyone thinks whether the reverse is the case: Do anyone actually think employees benefit from working themselves (to death..) before employers?

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#77

Post by [deleted] »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #57
defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

Well said. I've worked at 3 start-ups and at all of them I've worked long, grueling hours with the most recent one I was doing at least 65 hours a week (typically longer especially with a 3+ hour commute). I became severely burned out to the point where I didn't want to look for work or do much of anything. I was depressed and had severe anxiety. I went to the hospital with an anxiety attack so strong that I literall…

[deleted]

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#78

Post by onewaystreet »

paradite wrote: post #6

Meta but relevant: 57 points in 35 minutes with no heated debates in comments, but not top story, suggesting high number of flags by users if I remember correctly about HN ranking algorithm. Edit: Apparently this was a repost of the story, initially posted 15 hours ago (and 8 hours ago again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14198372 Edit again: Now this submission h…

I didn't flag this, but there is an argument for doing so: People commit suicide everyday. Many because of job stress. That this person worked at Uber doesn't make it newsworthy.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

zkms wrote: post #75
jupiter90000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is in the state of mind of wanting to take their own life, will they desire to call to talk to a stranger on a hotline? "In spite of their popularity and attractiveness, so far there is no conclusive evidence on the effectiveness of suicide prevention hot lines and crise centres" (2004) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/

It goes beyond just hotlines (which IME are useless at best and actively harmful at worst (having law-enforcement called on you is no fun)) -- the suicide rate for the past 80ish years in US has remained remarkably flat, despite many advances in psychiatry: https://twitter.com/sarahdoingthing/status/68238219583987712...

"Suicides In Rural America Increased More Than 40% In 16 Years"

http://acsh.org/news/2017/03/16/suicides-rural-america-incre...

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#80

Post by nul_byte »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #57
defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

Well said. I've worked at 3 start-ups and at all of them I've worked long, grueling hours with the most recent one I was doing at least 65 hours a week (typically longer especially with a 3+ hour commute). I became severely burned out to the point where I didn't want to look for work or do much of anything. I was depressed and had severe anxiety. I went to the hospital with an anxiety attack so strong that I literall…

This is why I am highly sceptical of start ups, and it would take a helluva a lot for someone to convince me to join another. I prefer big corps, as its possible to control you work load a little more and transfer internally if you get a bad boss.
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