You weren't meant to have a boss • Hacker News Board

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#21

Post by dfranke » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 9:54 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #16

dfranke wrote: post #3

If I had to structure an organization of 1,000 people, here's how I'd do it: rather than tiers of management on the order of 1, 10, 100, and 1000, I'd just have two levels. At the top would be a small committee that controls allocation of money and from time to time publishes non-specific guidelines about where they'd like the company to go. One person on the committee is in charge of hiring salesmen, who once hired…

[deleted]

> The profitable ones can receive more funding, if needed.

Who decides if it's needed?

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#22

Post by blored » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:03 PM UTC

Another appeal of big companies that wasn't touched on in the essay is that 'everybody's doing it'. I would argue that in addition to the economies of scale of mass production a large reason why you see people in corporations, eating crappy foods, and even wearing the same clothes is because 'everybody's doing it'.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#23

Post by pchristensen » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:06 PM UTC

dpapathanasiou wrote: post #5

dfranke wrote: post #3

If I had to structure an organization of 1,000 people, here's how I'd do it: rather than tiers of management on the order of 1, 10, 100, and 1000, I'd just have two levels. At the top would be a small committee that controls allocation of money and from time to time publishes non-specific guidelines about where they'd like the company to go. One person on the committee is in charge of hiring salesmen, who once hired…

If I had to structure an organization of 1,000 people You might also want to read this: http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Ricardo-Semler/dp/0712678867

This is why I love the HN community - not one but two people recommend the same book - that's a huge vote of confidence that forced me to take a better look at it.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#24

Post by Prrometheus » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:08 PM UTC

dfranke wrote: post #3

If I had to structure an organization of 1,000 people, here's how I'd do it: rather than tiers of management on the order of 1, 10, 100, and 1000, I'd just have two levels. At the top would be a small committee that controls allocation of money and from time to time publishes non-specific guidelines about where they'd like the company to go. One person on the committee is in charge of hiring salesmen, who once hired…

All in all, not a bad framework, though I expect much tinkering would be needed to optimize it. It’s worth noting that almost every large company strives to be “entrepreneurial”, although some are better at implementing this than others. The world’s largest private company (Koch Industries, I believe) prides itself on “market based management”, though I’m not sure what this means in practice. Koch is also a big funder of libertarian causes, which gives some hint at his mindset.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#25

Post by pchristensen » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:09 PM UTC

Mistone wrote: post #20

in the notes of this essay there is a strong statement about not funding startups with credit card debt. Just wondering if there is an acceptable limit of cc debt to use to get from concept to prototype? Or if its all the same and just a bad idea. beyong YC and friends & fam, there are limited options for the small pop of cash that gives you the time required to work in your startup. So far at my company we have been…

It's very different if you have a day job, income, etc. I think he's saying "Don't work full time on a startup by living off of credit cards." I have credit cards with limits more than a YC investment, but if I lived off that and the startup failed, instead of starting fresh, I'd have a lot of money+interest to pay back.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#26

Post by wumi » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:11 PM UTC

Has anyone else been to a Safari or seen wild life (read: Lions or Cheetahs) in their natural habitat?

If you have, that metaphor of a caged Lion vs. a wild Lion is (almost) all you need to extract out of this essay.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#27

Post by jimbokun » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:13 PM UTC

This made me think of something Peter Drucker wrote, and I think it came from the article summarized here:

http://knowledgeworks.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/article-the-c...

pg says that the modern firm is the product of modern technology, but this summary of Drucker's article points out that technology is also obviating the need for much of the "middle management" layers that pg criticizes as anathema to humankind's natural state.

I'm pretty sure somewhere Drucker also says that the only reason to keep activities within a single firm is because the transaction costs are lower than having activities performed by an outside firm. I think he also argued that as transaction costs between firms fall due to technology, it makes sense to "outsource" more and more, which of course we are seeing in today's economy. Which suggests that we should see more small firms over time.

Too bad Drucker is no longer with us. I'm sure he would have a lot more interesting things to say relevant to startups.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#28

Post by jimbokun » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:16 PM UTC

wumi wrote: post #26

Has anyone else been to a Safari or seen wild life (read: Lions or Cheetahs) in their natural habitat? If you have, that metaphor of a caged Lion vs. a wild Lion is (almost) all you need to extract out of this essay.

If nothing else, should offer a big confidence and morale booster to envision yourself as a lion prowling in the wild as you furiously hack away at your startup.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#29

Post by ivankirigin » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:33 PM UTC

blored wrote: post #22

Another appeal of big companies that wasn't touched on in the essay is that 'everybody's doing it'. I would argue that in addition to the economies of scale of mass production a large reason why you see people in corporations, eating crappy foods, and even wearing the same clothes is because 'everybody's doing it'.

There is some sound evolutionary reasoning in doing what lots of other people are doing. With the ease of living today and the massive amount of information available, the thinking is anachronistic. Too bad there are so many things that we're hard wired to do.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#30

Post by fendale » Thu, Mar 20, 2008, 10:52 PM UTC

hunterjrj wrote: post #2

I am a 27 year old programmer and have worked for two small companies ( < 20 employees ) and for one company of 200+ employees. The only thing I can say about working for the large company is that it felt like breathing through a straw. Go work for a small company or as Paul Graham suggests, go start up your own. Leave the big companies for the burnt-out folk with kids and debt.

I am also a 27 year old programmer working for a very large company well over 10K employees. Unfortunately, doing well career wise is more about politics than programming.

I have never worked for a small company so I cannot comment on that, but I hope for sure that there is something better than what I have experienced so far! Just have to pull my finger out and get out of there, or start some sort of startup ...