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Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

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Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#61

Post by jupiter90000 »

roystonvassey wrote: post #52
jupiter90000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is in the state of mind of wanting to take their own life, will they desire to call to talk to a stranger on a hotline? "In spite of their popularity and attractiveness, so far there is no conclusive evidence on the effectiveness of suicide prevention hot lines and crise centres" (2004) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/

Unless you know now of a better solution, it is important to, at least, point out the options available. Are there other interventions that are better than hotlines?

I'm not sure. I just get the feeling the hotlines are more for people to feel like they're doing something to help, when maybe they're really not doing much at all. I'd like to find out more about what really would help, and hope that I and others would be willing to put the real effort in to make a difference, behind something that works.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#62

Post by defined »

handsomechad wrote: post #42
pscsbs wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, this is not ridiculous (i.e. deserving or inviting derision or mockery). Many of us are under immense pressure to provide for our families in HCOL environments, and love our families more than ourselves. From personal experience, I can say this pressure can make you feel like you have no out -- you must take care of the ones you love or else face them living an extremely hard life. This can easily drive…

I mean that the outrage at Uber for this is what is ridiculous. Maybe not the story, or even the lawsuit (I understand the family seeking compensation for something like this), but the vitriol directed in Uber's direction for this seems more to do with their place as the current evil tech boogeyman more than anything else. It was his decision to live in a HCOL area, from what I read his family was encouraging him to…

I think Uber is currently a lightning rod for everything that's wrong with technical employers, especially in the USA. I think there is a great deal of simmering rage against the widespread mistreatment of engineers, and Uber has, in a sense, become the monster that has the villagers getting out their torches and pitchforks.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#63

Post by 3131s »

glogla wrote: post #9
paradite wrote: post #6

Meta but relevant: 57 points in 35 minutes with no heated debates in comments, but not top story, suggesting high number of flags by users if I remember correctly about HN ranking algorithm. Edit: Apparently this was a repost of the story, initially posted 15 hours ago (and 8 hours ago again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14198372 Edit again: Now this submission h…

There seems to be a trend where anything negative against a major company (most often microsoft, apple and google) is flagged rather quickly. My guess is that they realise how important HN is for public perception by tech people and run PR teams here.

Very possible.

If an Uber executive or PR person were particularly unscrupulous (would that surprise anyone at all?), another method would be to say something really insensitive in a thread like this and start a flame war to trigger HN's ranking algorithm. Imagine how easy that would be... a somewhat carefully disguised comment with the sentiment of "depression is just weakness, suck it up!" would rightfully send this thread into a frenzy of angry commentary and downvoting.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#64

Post by kirillzubovsky »

It's amazing how a toxic work environment can dismantle an otherwise perfectly fine human in a matter of months. For anyone who is reading this thinking it can't, I've seen a number of friends get completely demotivated and numb due to the circumstances of their work. Luckily all ended up finding better jobs, but the PTSD was real and took everyone a long time to shake off.

I can totally believe this guy was a great engineer too, as I've seen the work stress affect the best ones the most. The lazy and dumb can coast for months, speaking fancy words and pretending to be working, but really smart people actually want to deliver value and they grow tired and frustrated when they can't.

Stress isn't talked about much in SV, as the focus is on growth and revenue, and it's a shame. You can't build a long-lasting company without good people.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#65

Post by throwaway8800 »

jjjensen90 wrote: post #23

This was so difficult for me to read. I have struggled with extreme anxiety and chronic depression and brushed up against the thought of there being no way forward or out but suicide. During the closest calls, I was making the most I ever had, living in a nice house, etc. It didn't really matter though. I felt a tightness in my chest and a boiling kettle of acid in my stomach from the second I woke up until the secon…

> I had a Pavlovian response to the sound of email arriving on my phone, to the point where it would be in my nightmares.

I went through a rough period last summer where a project I was involved in was a complete disaster. I basically spent 24x7 terrified that a new "emergency" was going to roll in on my phone via email with a stakeholder telling me how this new issue was ruining their life and how disappointed they were; an issue which I was expected to deal with immediately. After that summer and to this day I keep my phone in "Do Not Disturb" mode 24x7 and treat it as a passive communications device that I only check when I want to, because I have literally run out of notification tones on my phone that don't send a burst of adrenaline through my body upon hearing them.

This is even after that project is over. I feel like it permanently damaged my brain and my ability to deal with stress.

I have used smartwatches that notify you when an email comes in by vibrating on your wrist. I view these as modern-day human "shock collars" where the shock collar beneficiary is actually not you, but your employer. I actually warn others against falling into that trap of wearing a "shock collar for work". Having your arm vibrate the moment an email comes in is not healthy.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#66

Post by defined »

boomzilla wrote: post #37
elvinyung wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this doesn't completely address your comment, but the article mentions a Facebook message made by him: > “The sad thing is this place (Uber) has broken me to the point where I don’t have the strength to look for another job,” Thomas wrote.

Be frugal. Don't buy a house unless you have at least 6 months of payments in the bank. Don't buy a car if you need to take a loan. Save as much you can. Build and maintain a strong network outside work (family/friends/professional contacts). Every time I got into a difficult situation at work, I take a deep breath and tell myself: "Don't worry, give it your best shot to resolve this. And if that's not good enough, y…

It's well-meaning advice, but understand that, in situations like these, certain personality types don't think as rationally as you would expect. One size does not fit all when it comes to handling adversity.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#67

Post by code_duck »

stephengillie wrote: post #12
joeblubaugh wrote: post #2

Please know that if you are feeling hopeless, like you are a failure, and that there is no recovering, there are people who will help you. You are not your job or your accomplishments, you are worth it and there are people who love you and will help you. In the Bay Area, call (415) 781-0500 to talk with someone who can help. http://www.sfsuicide.org/

If you want to end things, walk away from your life and career. Stand up from your desk, put one foot in front of the other, and proceed in this way until you tire.

It seems people are confused by this comment. My interpretation is that you mean what I've heard phrased as 'kill the person you are'. Meaning, if it's your life situations and identity that are causing you such distress, why not just walk away?

This could mean switching careers, getting divorced, cutting ties with friends, moving far away, or a combination thereof. After all, suicide would end all of those things too, in a worse way. So if you were willing to do that most final and extreme action, why not just say screw it and start driving? After all you'd have nothing to lose compared to suicide.

In some cases just the realization that one can make changes is significant.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#68

Post by ajhurliman »

I truly feel awful for the family, but to play devil's advocate: What could you do if you were in Uber's position to prevent something like this?

And no cop-out answers like "Don't make an environment that pressures people" (everyone has deadlines, pressure is ubiquitous). What, specifically, would you do tomorrow to prevent this in the future if you were the CEO of Uber?

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#69

Post by noway421 »

paradite wrote: post #6

Meta but relevant: 57 points in 35 minutes with no heated debates in comments, but not top story, suggesting high number of flags by users if I remember correctly about HN ranking algorithm. Edit: Apparently this was a repost of the story, initially posted 15 hours ago (and 8 hours ago again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14198372 Edit again: Now this submission h…

As much as all the recent events seems to be targeted campaign, I wouldn't think it's unusual. This is probably the most heated topic in startups right now and I too myself upvoted the link after seeing it.
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