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Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

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Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#51

Post by madeofpalk »

joeblubaugh wrote: post #2

Please know that if you are feeling hopeless, like you are a failure, and that there is no recovering, there are people who will help you. You are not your job or your accomplishments, you are worth it and there are people who love you and will help you. In the Bay Area, call (415) 781-0500 to talk with someone who can help. http://www.sfsuicide.org/

> You are not your job

This. 100% this. While I've been fortunate enough to not be in a position of job stress like this, the moment I realised that who I am is not defined by my job was the moment life (both inside AND outside of work) became so much easier.

Edit, to elaborate: take that higher-paying job but less 'prestigious' company because who the fuck cares. Clock out of work on time and refuse consistent unpaid over overtime. Work not doing what you want it to, leave and find something better. Quit defining yourself by your employer and instead work on you.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#52

Post by roystonvassey »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #33
joeblubaugh wrote: post #2

Please know that if you are feeling hopeless, like you are a failure, and that there is no recovering, there are people who will help you. You are not your job or your accomplishments, you are worth it and there are people who love you and will help you. In the Bay Area, call (415) 781-0500 to talk with someone who can help. http://www.sfsuicide.org/

If someone is in the state of mind of wanting to take their own life, will they desire to call to talk to a stranger on a hotline? "In spite of their popularity and attractiveness, so far there is no conclusive evidence on the effectiveness of suicide prevention hot lines and crise centres" (2004) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/

Unless you know now of a better solution, it is important to, at least, point out the options available.

Are there other interventions that are better than hotlines?

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#54

Post by davesque »

Illniyar wrote: post #30

I think we are missing some information here: "All suggested that he leave his job, but he was adamant that he could not. " The question is why? what conditions need to occur where a man who most likely can get another job easily enough and who has switched jobs before decides that ending his life his a better course of action then switching jobs. They wrote that he eventually saw a psychiatrist, was he prescribed SS…

I imagine people are wanting to blame Uber because there have been other reports of bullying, hazing, sexism, etc. in the company. Couple that with all the accounts of Uber's willingness to test or even flout the law and it doesn't paint a nice picture.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#55

Post by r00fus »

throwaway75657 wrote: post #21

So what should you do if you find yourself in one of these situations and get let go? It gets really irritating having to explain what happened at the previous job in every interview.

That's part of the problem - and it's one of perception, not reality.

People are good in the right environment and with the right team. If the fit is bad, it could be a lose-lose.

I've seen great people (I personally knew) do worse in a subsequent job, and vice-versa - people who were subpar in a previous job do great at a new gig.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#56

Post by elvinyung »

danso wrote: post #24
elvinyung wrote: post #11

X-posting my comment from the other post because I think it's worth discussing: > Uber denied the benefits claim through its insurance carrier. That seems like an extremely terrible move, even if Uber might be technically correct. Deciding to do that makes them look awful, and I think that's what matters most, given everything else contributing to their public image right now. It could have been a great opportunity t…

I wonder if accepting such a claim also meant accepting that Thomas had faced an "extraordinary employment condition". That is, did the benefits claim come with an accusation that Uber was at fault? If so, then it's not just a consideration of "common decency", but legal liability. Note: IANAL and didn't even know what California law was in regards to insurance claims and suicide. Genuinely curious as to the technica…

Good point! IANAL also, but I read a bit about this and got the following[1]:

> Ultimately, the WCAB emphasized that it was the “work condition that must be uncommon, unusual, or totally unexpected” in order to qualify as an extraordinary employment condition

So, I wonder if by rejecting the claim, Uber is claiming that whatever work conditions Thomas was facing is normal. I wonder if the converse is also true, that accepting the claim also means Uber claims that his work conditions were actually unusual.

[1] http://pknwlaw.com/Newsletters/2015/Q1/2-LC3208.html

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#57

Post by BinaryIdiot »

defined wrote: post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

Well said. I've worked at 3 start-ups and at all of them I've worked long, grueling hours with the most recent one I was doing at least 65 hours a week (typically longer especially with a 3+ hour commute). I became severely burned out to the point where I didn't want to look for work or do much of anything. I was depressed and had severe anxiety. I went to the hospital with an anxiety attack so strong that I literally thought I was having a heart attack and was going to die in front of my two year old (I was trying to explain to her what to do if daddy passes out). My chest was in pain, my arm numb; I still don't understand how it wasn't a heart attack because of how intense it felt.

I eventually took some time off and started interviewing at various places. Shortly after taking time off I was told that the founders felt I wasn't "working fast enough" and was fired. I had never been fired from a job before and I contest their reasoning but secretly felt incredible relief to the point where I barely even argued, I just packed up my stuff and left with a smile on my face.

Now I'm working at a place with fantastic work life balance.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#58

Post by fratlas »

jjjensen90 wrote: post #23

This was so difficult for me to read. I have struggled with extreme anxiety and chronic depression and brushed up against the thought of there being no way forward or out but suicide. During the closest calls, I was making the most I ever had, living in a nice house, etc. It didn't really matter though. I felt a tightness in my chest and a boiling kettle of acid in my stomach from the second I woke up until the secon…

Man I so relate to this right now. Is there anyway I can email you? I really want to know how to overcome this.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#59

Post by abalone »

I'll put this out there.. somone who has destigmatized and open sourced depression is Rob Delaney. Now has an award winning show featuring the late Carrie Fischer (Catastrophe) but nearly killed him self a few times in the past and has written extensively about it[1]. Alcoholism too. Psychiatric medication saved his life. REALLY funny guy, check him out on twitter (best reason to use twitter still).

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/comedy-545-v17n10

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#60

Post by droopyEyelids »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38
jupiter90000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is in the state of mind of wanting to take their own life, will they desire to call to talk to a stranger on a hotline? "In spite of their popularity and attractiveness, so far there is no conclusive evidence on the effectiveness of suicide prevention hot lines and crise centres" (2004) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/

Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, we should still strive to give that person alternatives. "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". -- Plato Edit: @aaron695: that is what I was trying to communicate

I think the point is we should be careful about "doing something" and then indulging in the satisfaction of "something has been done", especially if there is no evidence that the 'something' we pick is beneficial to anyone.
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