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Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

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Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#51

Post by Pica_soO »

grecy wrote: post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

At the end of the day, all open world idealism aside, the guild of engineers votes with their feet for guild protectionism. And of course its all to protect the users. Not sure. At least you are in good company- after the cold war ended, lots of famous russian mathematicians and doctors searched for work in the west- and there degrees where not accepted. I mean russian mathematicians, that combination is nearly a brand. Fear of looking lousy next to the imported guy.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#52

Post by wiredfool »

chrisferry wrote: post #38
bnolsen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, take the EIT and several other tests and you become a certified engineer.

Nah son, all you need is your MSCE and you are golden!

Got one of those, but I think you mean MCSE.

(I've got the master of science in civil engineering, not the Microsoft one)

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#53

Post by anigbrowl »

flamedoge wrote: post #47
miiiiiike wrote: post #6

Yep. I went to an engineering school and multiple professors told us to get our PE licenses before we called ourselves "Engineers". No court will take you seriously if you aren't licensed. Upside, if you do have a PE license you can get side-gigs as an expert witnesses.

government and law trumping math and science. It saddens me.

Nothing got trumped. He would have been fine if he had made the exact same argument with asserting that he was an engineer, a claim that has specific legal implications that are easily verified.

If you wrote an article on cardiology, and you said 'I am a doctor' but you hadn't kept your medical license current, then it would be a false claim, regardless of the fact that your article on cardiology was 100% true. Asserting a privileged status that you do not hold misleads people who rely on the licensure system as a proxy for performing due diligence.

Professionalism is about more than whether people are willing to pay you or not. It involves commitment to uphold particular standards even if it is not in your personal interest to do so.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#54

Post by xer0x »

grecy wrote: post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

Yeah, over here in BC everyone gets all uppity too. The local engineering authority recently told a company that they couldn't advertise that it was hiring "software engineers" because it said they couldn't use the word "engineer" in the job title.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#55

Post by CaveTech »

smnrchrds wrote: post #20
grecy wrote: post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

There are 598 Software Professional Engineers in Ontario alone. You can see their names by selecting 'Software Engineering' as dicipline and leaving the rest of the form empty here: http://forum.peo.on.ca/cgi-bin/EPIM_Search/EPIM_Form_Search.... Furthurmore, there are 1316 Computer Engineers. These are not huge numbers, but it is wrong to say that there is no such thing as software engineering in Canada.

598 P.Eng. in a province with a population of 14 million. The odds of working with one without deliberately trying to work with one being close to none.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#56

Post by cholantesh »

slavik81 wrote: post #42
grecy wrote: post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

> To get my degree accredited in Canada, I must work some huge number of hours as a Software Engineer working with Software Engineers. But of course, there is no such thing in Canada , and so... yeah. We exist. I'm a Canadian P.Eng. (Software). I got my experience working on software for controlling unmanned vehicles, and I know a few dozen other Software P.Engs. Requiring some amount of local experience makes sense,…

I've considered getting my P.Eng. once I complete my degree; do you feel that it's a worthwhile credential to have? Every P.Eng. that I've met has been involved in mechanical or electrical engineering, so I'd like to get the perspective of someone in software.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#57

Post by _RPM »

grecy wrote: post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

That's an example of a deadlock.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#58

Post by anigbrowl »

muninn_ wrote: post #37
peterwwillis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To simplify this: Any title which is protected and governed by law makes it illegal for you to claim the title without being licensed to do so. "Engineer" is one of those titles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_en...

From your link: "However, it is important to make a distinction between a "graduate engineer" and a "professional engineer" or "licensed engineer." A "graduate engineer" is anyone holding a degree in engineering from an accredited four-year university program, but is not licensed to practice or offer services to the public. Unlicensed engineers usually work as employees for a company, or as professors in engineering…

It's unwise to rely on a Wikipedia for legal analysis; at best you should treat it as a good starting point for your more detailed research.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#59

Post by Clownshoesms »

I guess I could see he might have an axe to grind wrt to his partner's ticket, but if he has a point, they should at least (being representatives of us poor ol citizens) respond to the point and not just slap a fine on him.

Seems incredibly petty.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#60

Post by sdflkd »

miiiiiike wrote: post #18
porpoisemonkey wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to "software engineers"? Do they have to call themselves something else in the state? As far as I know there is no national accreditation body for the title in the US.

I went through an ABET accredited software engineering program, they pointed us to the NSPE. I'm not a PE but I still call myself a software engineer on everything except government forms. As far as the government's concerned I'm a programmer.

> As far as the government's concerned I'm a programmer.

I don't think so. It's been a bit since I read up on Visa stuff (and I imagine it doesn't matter to you as an American citizen) but there are distinctions between programmer / software developer / etc.

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