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Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

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Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#11
post #3

Honest curiosity: is it fraud (in the US) to claim that you are a member of a profession that you are not? (I am not saying that is what he intended to do here). For example, if someone owes me money, is it illegal for me to send them a letter, in which I purport to be a lawyer?

[deleted]

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#12
post #3

Honest curiosity: is it fraud (in the US) to claim that you are a member of a profession that you are not? (I am not saying that is what he intended to do here). For example, if someone owes me money, is it illegal for me to send them a letter, in which I purport to be a lawyer?

Engineering isn't exactly the same, but I worked IT at an architecture firm and workers there were not legally allowed to call themselves "Architect" without being licensed.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#13
post #5

The chart he created shows he has more engineering skills than the beaurcrats running the Oregon Sate Boards. Another example of government employees being incompentant. Here's one quick example of cities shortening yellow lights for profits.[1] 1. https://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-sho...

I find your way of pointing their lack of competance really funny.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#14
post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

Software Engineering is definitely a recognized engineering in Canada. And it's only a year of working with a P.Eng. But you're right, it's a chicken/egg problem, which is super unfortunate. I think somewhere down the line accreditation will be more important, but PEO has backed themselves in to a corner.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#15
post #3

Honest curiosity: is it fraud (in the US) to claim that you are a member of a profession that you are not? (I am not saying that is what he intended to do here). For example, if someone owes me money, is it illegal for me to send them a letter, in which I purport to be a lawyer?

I am a lawyer and you are practicing law without a license. Fine is $500. Send me yer moneys plz kthxbai

--skittles the kitten

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#16
post #3

Honest curiosity: is it fraud (in the US) to claim that you are a member of a profession that you are not? (I am not saying that is what he intended to do here). For example, if someone owes me money, is it illegal for me to send them a letter, in which I purport to be a lawyer?

There are several facts that affect whether the consequence of claiming to have a professional qualification is regulatory or criminal (being two branches of "illegal"), including (but not limited to), in no particular order:

1. Who you send it to 2. The purpose of the communication 3. The consequences of the communication 4. Whether it is inter- or intra-state 5. What profession it is

There are other questions that can factor in, but the general rule is: don't lie.

Lying of any form for personal gain is generally a species of fraud, but pretending to have a professional qualification – even without gain – can also incur consequences.

It's not limited to professional qualifications; some places still observe the crime of jactitation, which is pretending to be married.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#17

Yep. I went to an engineering school and multiple professors told us to get our PE licenses before we called ourselves "Engineers". No court will take you seriously if you aren't licensed. Upside, if you do have a PE license you can get side-gigs as an expert witnesses.

How does this apply to "software engineers"? Do they have to call themselves something else in the state? As far as I know there is no national accreditation body for the title in the US.

https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#18

Yep. I went to an engineering school and multiple professors told us to get our PE licenses before we called ourselves "Engineers". No court will take you seriously if you aren't licensed. Upside, if you do have a PE license you can get side-gigs as an expert witnesses.

How does this apply to "software engineers"? Do they have to call themselves something else in the state? As far as I know there is no national accreditation body for the title in the US.

I went through an ABET accredited software engineering program, they pointed us to the NSPE.

I'm not a PE but I still call myself a software engineer on everything except government forms. As far as the government's concerned I'm a programmer.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#19

Yep. I went to an engineering school and multiple professors told us to get our PE licenses before we called ourselves "Engineers". No court will take you seriously if you aren't licensed. Upside, if you do have a PE license you can get side-gigs as an expert witnesses.

How does this apply to "software engineers"? Do they have to call themselves something else in the state? As far as I know there is no national accreditation body for the title in the US.

My layman's understanding is that in US you're correct, that there isn't an accreditation for SEs.

Heck, you can have a job title of Software Engineer without even having graduated college.

Re: Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't

#20
post #10

I run up against this sometimes in Canada. I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree). If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah. Even if…

There are 598 Software Professional Engineers in Ontario alone. You can see their names by selecting 'Software Engineering' as dicipline and leaving the rest of the form empty here: http://forum.peo.on.ca/cgi-bin/EPIM_Search/EPIM_Form_Search....

Furthurmore, there are 1316 Computer Engineers. These are not huge numbers, but it is wrong to say that there is no such thing as software engineering in Canada.

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