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In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

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Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#321

Post by jdhn »

phkahler wrote: post #212
baddox wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area.

>> That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area. It amazes me how many people in tech can't do simple math. Hint: The Detroit area job market is on fire, but you will pass it over if your idea of compensation doesn't take into account cost of living. I'm sure there are several other cities that can say the same.

I don't know if I would call the Detroit market hot, it took me about 3-4 months to find a new job. However, I'm not a software developer, so rhat could also have something to do with it.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#322

Post by itomato »

throwa38282 wrote: post #311
itomato wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas content is $100/month when it used to be $0.

Broadcast TV is still free. Movies always cost a fair amount of money. An internet connection with youtube is $30 which is WAY more variety than "back then".

Mmm. Yeah, I get loads of value from Univision and Home Shopping Channels like HSN, QVC and the others.

Can't forget Qubo and Me.tv. Good times, for sure.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#323

Post by scholia »

CalRobert wrote: post #316
_ao789 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After living in 'cramped old london' for over a decade (still), I can only dream of the luxury of 800 Sq.m. Where do I sign up? :) fitting multiple people/families into anything less is just bad living standards as far as I'm concerned. You work hard all day long to go back to such a depressing existence. Time to start living fellow HN'ers!

Eh, grass is greener. Some of us worked hard to live in lively, crowded European cities. The suburbs have their downsides. For me, it was crushing loneliness.

You live in the centre when you're young and single and changing jobs. You move to the suburbs when you have married, settled down and want kids, a garden, good local schools etc.

When the kids have moved out, you can downsize to that retirement place in Spain... except that may not work as well after the UK leaves the EU.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#324

Post by sidlls »

ransom1538 wrote: post #46
archeantus wrote: post #6

Wow, this resonates with me. In 2013 my wife and I were living in the Bay Area and had just welcomed our third child into the family. I was making 105k/yr at Apple (which seemed like a ton at the time!) but I felt like I was saving very little of that. I was approached on LinkedIn to take a job with matching pay but that was fully remote. I could live anywhere I wanted in the entire country. I jumped at the chance an…

Did the exact same thing this year. Moved to Oviedo, FL from SF: 1) no state income tax, 2) public schools in my neighborhood are equivalent to a private school in sf [i] 4) weather is great 8 months out of year, 5) beaches you can swim in, 6) rent is ~1/4 of what it was in SF, 7) cuban food, 8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes [i] http://school-ratings.com/Florida/schools/Carillon_Elementar... WARNI…

1) And this shows: public services and family friendly recreation are basically non-existent by comparison with the Bay

2) Possibly a gem in the rough, but having family who teach in OCPS I'm skeptical

4) Quite subjective; I personally don't enjoy 100% humidity and 100 degree temperatures 8 months out of the year in which one is constantly assaulted by mosquitoes and "love bugs"

5) again, subjective, although it's hard to argue that the Bay Area isn't laughable by comparison

6) I doubt you're going to find a 1500 sq ft. 3 bedroom town home for $1k per month (1/4 of what I pay 20 miles south of SF), and you're leaving out other costs, hidden costs, including commute and items related to the lack of public services and much higher utilities costs; the cost of living is lower, but not 75% lower

7) there is much, much greater diversity of food (including Cuban food) in the Bay Area

8) This isn't cheap, even for residents. Last I looked, years ago, it was more expensive than a family pass for the Exploratorium and other far more enriching and entertaining things for kids to.

Then there are many negatives. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the lack of diversity. Central Florida had a strong Latin American influence but it's still mainly a white monoculture.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#325

Post by grumblestumble »

refurb wrote: post #234
grumblestumble wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I work full time, combined income is just below $400k. With a mortgage on a 3 bedroom in Oakland, daycare and after-school care costs, student loans, et al, we have never been more broke in our lives. I was living large when I was making $75k and not living in the Bay Area... now, it's beans and rice most nights, and hoping the early 2000's honda doesn't break down on the way to school.

Wait a second. You and your wife pulled in ~$30K per month pre-tax, so I'll be generous and say $15K per month after tax. Any you have never been more broke? Even with kids I'd be hard pressed to call that broke unless you had ridiculous student loans. And in that case, you're screwed where ever you live.

yeah, ridiculous student loans (med school), and some of it is definitely unrelated to being in the bay - a lot of debt related to the substandard paid maternity/paternity leave when having a kid in the USA (shoulda got that job @ netflix in retrospect...).

but kid-related costs here are also out of control, accredited infant daycare is insane, and you pretty much have to take what you can get into. same with after school care. this alone is >$3k/mo.

CA self-employment tax is nothing to sneeze at either, especially if you're a contractor in an industry that makes having an s-corp unfeasible.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#326

Post by majani »

mr_tristan wrote: post #187

And this is why tech jobs are going to continue to lead the charge to being mostly remote workers. Major tech hubs are crazy expensive, and the jobs are pretty amenable to remote work. At some point, there's going to be another inflection point where a lot of people making comfortable upper middle-class incomes move out to, well, anywhere. Basically, someone's going to do the math, and recognize that remote workers a…

I think it's investors holding up the movement at this point. I usually see most tech guys are mentally prepared for this shift, but finance guys are strongly opposed.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#327

Post by sidlls »

baddox wrote: post #94
ransom1538 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the exact same thing this year. Moved to Oviedo, FL from SF: 1) no state income tax, 2) public schools in my neighborhood are equivalent to a private school in sf [i] 4) weather is great 8 months out of year, 5) beaches you can swim in, 6) rent is ~1/4 of what it was in SF, 7) cuban food, 8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes [i] http://school-ratings.com/Florida/schools/Carillon_Elementar... WARNI…

That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area.

Unless you enjoy sweatshop programming in the gaming or defense (simulations) industry, where actual software engineering is done in spite of the companies' best efforts, software work in that area of Florida has almost no resemblance to software work in the Bay Area.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#328

Post by stmfreak »

enraged_camel wrote: post #297
sideband wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also moved from the the Bay Area to Oviedo, FL not long ago (fun fact about our little town: Brian Acton, co-founder of WhatsApp, grew up here). I agree with everything on your list, and I'll add one more item: 9) Greater thought diversity and tolerance for opposing viewpoints. When I lived in the Bay Area it seemed that too many people I interacted with were of similar backgrounds: very educated, high income and s…

With all due respect, I don't really buy that narrative. People often mistake critical thinking skills with close-mindedness. Just because someone uses thought and reason to reject an idea doesn't mean they are close-minded. Not all ideas deserve acceptance. I'm as open-minded as it gets, but if you tell me that vaccines cause autism then you will go down several notches in my book. (Ironically, there are many anti-v…

That sort of "critical thinking" arrogance is what keeps people from sharing their different opinions and perspectives from your pompous ass.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#329

Post by anon374939 »

sbrks wrote: post #272
anon374939 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most activities seemed at least 2x more difficult, and that differential probably becomes 3x with kids. Service all around isn't very good in the Bay, there is a higher chance of simple things to not go as planned. Over the years I've realized that stress is something that creeps up on you slowly but surely, and most often you don't even realize it. Over the years it adds up, and ultimately can reduce your lifespan.…

Can you elaborate a little more on the activities here being 2x more difficult? I'm curious because this is a metric I use when comparing quality of life between NYC and SF (I made the move about a year ago). Activities like laundry, grocery shopping, and commuting I find easier in SF than in NYC, even though some of the salient variables haven't changed much (e.g. in both cities I don't have in-unit laundry so I go…

NYC seems to be on par with SF. Both living situations are extreme for someone with a more suburban upbringing.

Lack of mobility if you don't have a car, lack of available parking if you do, long lines in general, lots of traffic. Very poor care at many establishments due to overworked and over stressed staff. Miniscule and generally not so great living conditions. For example I lived in a nearly 100 year old house in Oakland with others, which 1 yr later found out had mold problems (a serious health hazard). Also lived in two very modern apartments in the heart of SF both of which had a converted living room bedroom with three roommates. One roommate slept on a couch for a year, paying over $1000/mo. Crime due to homeless situation (witnessed crime frequently during my time, petty crime especially. Side note, didn't a Bart train get robbed just yesterday?). Medical care is another big one (multiple experiences, one for me personally)

Even little things like cooking are very difficult when your entire kitchen is 1/5 the size of what you'd find in a similarly priced suburban home. Little things like this add to stress as I wrote a bit about already.

And sadly the south bay isn't that much better as a "suburb". The home prices in Palo Alto for example are quite outrageous. There are a lot of far nicer suburbs in other parts of the country without the wild price tag.

I was young when I moved, and don't regret the time I spent in the Bay at all. I learned a lot, it was positive for my career and most of all I just had to get it out of my system. The glitz and glamour of it all wore with time, as I suspect it does for many, and ultimately I felt it wasn't where I would want to build my future.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#330

Post by [deleted] »

archeantus wrote: post #126
CalRobert wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah.. I mean, space is nice, but in homes of 800 or so square feet I've been pretty happy. How much carbon is emitted cooling and heating an 8k sq ft home in Utah? How far do you have to drive to do things?

Our utility bills certainly have gone up, which we aren't thrilled with. We are considering some solar panel options to help bring our carbon footprint down. Being fully remote, I try to make up for that by not driving very much :) Overall, the valley we live in has pretty much everything we could want, from a retail perspective. A nice small-town grocery store about 3 mins away, and larger national chains further do…

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