In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income” • Hacker News Board

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#131

Post by matwood » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

archeantus wrote: post #20

gshulegaard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, as an engineer finding myself thinking along similar lines, where did you end up moving?

We moved to Utah where the tech scene is actually quite strong, and the cost of living is significantly less. We bought an 8k sq ft house for the price of many 1,500 sq ft town homes we had been putting offers in on in California. It can be such a rat race down there, it is refreshing to remember that it doesn't have to be that way. Life exists outside of The Valley, and it happens to be a pretty darn good one (and a…

Hopefully 8k sqft was a typo. I feel like 2500sqft is too much sometimes.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#132

Post by nosequel » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

archeantus wrote: post #6

Wow, this resonates with me. In 2013 my wife and I were living in the Bay Area and had just welcomed our third child into the family. I was making 105k/yr at Apple (which seemed like a ton at the time!) but I felt like I was saving very little of that. I was approached on LinkedIn to take a job with matching pay but that was fully remote. I could live anywhere I wanted in the entire country. I jumped at the chance an…

Did the exact same thing 10 years ago. Couldn't take living in California any more. We moved to Colorado.

  * My health, both physical and mental has increased tremendously.   
  * Our house is far cheaper in mortgage than our apartment was. 
  * Schools are far better than anything in California we could afford 
  * Crime is almost non-existent.  Most people don't lock car or house doors. 
  * It is rare I drive more than 8 miles on any day, no more highways for me unless I'm skiing. 
  * The air & water are clean, the tap water tastes better than the bottle water I used to drink.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#133

Post by bencoder » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #61

rogy wrote: post #16

Interestingly similar discussion going around in the UK at the moment after a UK MP came out saying that '£70,000' salary makes you 'rich'. 70k as a single income won't get you a flat in London in any reasonable time and you'll most certainly be renting forever on that kind if money in London. Even if its triple the average UK wage. Location means everything.

Only if you want to live in central London. You can still easily get a house on that income in London suburbs. For example you can get a 3-bed in Orpington (20 minutes by train to London Bridge) for around £400k which should be comfortably affordable to someone on 70k.

Saving up a 10%, £40k, deposit while renting here is quite tough though, even on 70k. And most devs don't earn that much

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#134

Post by archeantus » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #99

rocgf wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reaction exactly. Americans use way too much, to be honest. 8k sq ft is more than enough for like 7+ families.

Yeah, seems fairly ridiculous. You'd spend your life vacuuming.

That was actually an onerous task at first. But I bought my wife a Neato robot vacuum a few years back and it has been such a nice thing to have.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#135

Post by 1024core » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

kevinburke wrote: post #87

A lot of the unaffordability is due to the high price of housing in the area. Here are some concrete steps you can take to help lower the price of housing: - The Brisbane City Council is deciding whether to build 4400 units of housing on 600 acres south of San Francisco, about the same number of units SF built in total last year. The Brisbane Planning Commission recommended building an office park instead. Contact th…

If I had the money, I'd just put a ballot measure on the ballot to raise the height ceiling for new buildings built within 2 blocks of a MUNI line to 100ft, no approval required. Also: legalize the unpermitted "in law" units.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#136

Post by tbomb » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

s3r3nity wrote: post #63

ransom1538 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the exact same thing this year. Moved to Oviedo, FL from SF: 1) no state income tax, 2) public schools in my neighborhood are equivalent to a private school in sf [i] 4) weather is great 8 months out of year, 5) beaches you can swim in, 6) rent is ~1/4 of what it was in SF, 7) cuban food, 8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes [i] http://school-ratings.com/Florida/schools/Carillon_Elementar... WARNI…

Sidebar / off topic: highly recommend the cuban espresso in Florida if you're into coffee...blew me away when I had it for the first time, and is one of the top reasons I look forward to travelling there.

Cafe colada is what I miss most about Miami, having now moved to California :(

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#137

Post by juliangoldsmith » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #30

archeantus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We moved to Utah where the tech scene is actually quite strong, and the cost of living is significantly less. We bought an 8k sq ft house for the price of many 1,500 sq ft town homes we had been putting offers in on in California. It can be such a rat race down there, it is refreshing to remember that it doesn't have to be that way. Life exists outside of The Valley, and it happens to be a pretty darn good one (and a…

800 square meters????

8k sqft is ridiculous even by American standards. For a family of 5, I'd call about 2400 sqft (~220 sqm) normal, maybe a bit overkill.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#138

Post by ig1 » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #71

ig1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you want to live in central London. You can still easily get a house on that income in London suburbs. For example you can get a 3-bed in Orpington (20 minutes by train to London Bridge) for around £400k which should be comfortably affordable to someone on 70k.

> around £400k which should be comfortably affordable to someone on 70k The mortgage on that will be using up around half of your income. That's insane.

Assuming a 60k deposit (so 340k mortage), you could get a 2 year fixed mortgage at 1.53% so your repayments will be £1,178.31.

£70k post-tax is around £48k so £4k/month so the mortgage will take around 30% of your take-home pay which is a fairly standard ratio.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#139

Post by kelnos » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #30

archeantus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We moved to Utah where the tech scene is actually quite strong, and the cost of living is significantly less. We bought an 8k sq ft house for the price of many 1,500 sq ft town homes we had been putting offers in on in California. It can be such a rat race down there, it is refreshing to remember that it doesn't have to be that way. Life exists outside of The Valley, and it happens to be a pretty darn good one (and a…

800 square meters????

This is something I still don't get, even as an American. I live by myself in a 950 sq ft (~88 sq m) apartment, and that's already more space than I know what to do with. Sure, add a spouse and 2 or 3 kids and my space needs would increase, but I can't imagine needing 8-10x as much space, ever. Maybe 3x, at most 4x.

I grew up in a fairly large house (I don't recall the size, but two floors, 6 bedrooms, kitchen, formal dining room, living room, family room, 3 bathrooms, basement filled with junk; so, fairly large -- semi-rural Maryland, where space was cheap in the 80s/90s). My parents weren't hoarders, though they did accumulate stuff. After my sister and I moved out and my mom passed away, my dad lived in a giant house by himself, couldn't maintain it, and also felt like he couldn't move because the house wasn't in good enough shape to sell.

I just don't get this need for more and more space. It just encourages you to buy more stuff that you don't need, and takes more time/effort/money to maintain. I hesitate to "tell people how to live", but this keeping up with the Joneses attitude is a component of what causes cost of living to rise and is ultimately a zero-sum game.

Re: In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”

#140

Post by grumblestumble » Tue, Apr 25, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #70

geggam wrote: post #21

Single income, Alameda county ( Fremont ), family of 4 No car payment, No credit card debt, 130k will let you live and eat with a bit of room to go do things once a month. If you have a car payment and or credit cards kiss that once a month thing goodbye 150k will let you have a car and do things Source : I left that area recently

Honest question. I just looked at Redfin and the average house costs around $1.2mm. How would anyone making $130k with 4 dependents buy a house? You seem to fit that criteria so I'll ask you. How on earth did you afford that? Because based on my simple math there just isn't enough money for it to be possible.

My wife and I work full time, combined income is just below $400k. With a mortgage on a 3 bedroom in Oakland, daycare and after-school care costs, student loans, et al, we have never been more broke in our lives. I was living large when I was making $75k and not living in the Bay Area... now, it's beans and rice most nights, and hoping the early 2000's honda doesn't break down on the way to school.