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Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

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Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#111

Post by VLM »

peapicker wrote: post #2

".. However, StackOverflow’s survey on age shows that there are just about 13% of developers after 40. Where are the others?" Obviously not on StackOverflow. Perhaps they have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site because they either know how to read tech books and sites to get the info they need when they have a problem using pre-existing docs, or conversely, are fully able to debug issues themselves.…

I grew up in an era where if I somehow forgot the option for recursive for the rm command I reflexively typed "man rm" and "/recursive" and maybe "/" a couple times. It seems younger people will context switch from the console to the web browser, pull up a google window, search for "unix.stackexchange rm recurse" and slowly scroll thru "About 43,700 results (0.97 seconds)" for perhaps hours, opening multiple tabs. Perhaps they'll very sloooooly use a touch screen phone, or even worse scream across an open office interrupting 100 people who were in flow mode, but hey it saved them five seconds with the "man" command.

The other problem is I removed my training wheels in the 80s or 90s, and my problems are almost purely subjective, like "what is the best virtualization system running on FreeBSD" Google search of stackoverflow finds no question asked. Thanks stackoverflow you're really helpful when I forget what command copies files on linux (kidding), but not for the important stuff.

The next problem is seen at this URL

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14966014/whats-the-best-...

OK thanks stackoverflow for having the same question but for linux perhaps I can work off that ... wait, whats that, "asked 4 years, 2 months ago" Well I can't work with data that old, may as well not even be on line... And whats this... "As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance." Well, stackoverflow can just go F itself. It certainly doesn't answer any question I need answered.

My examples above were pretty staged, but across real topics, SO does boil down to a medium-to-slow speed way of answering relatively low level questions. Old timers work too quick, and they've already learned too much to ask the kind of question SO can answer.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#112

Post by Mc_Big_G »

solox3 wrote: post #100
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #74

45. Still coding, probably until I die. Light years ahead of younger developers in the following: * Writing less code * Writing maintainable code * Re-using existing code (requires reading existing code) * Know how APIs should be written * Knowing how to properly map associations * Know when or when not to use another library * Knowing when to tell a product manager to go back and do some more product managing * Know…

Junior here. What does "map associations" mean in this context?

I was referring to the best way to model associations on client/server code and how that maps to the database schema. For some reason, I find that younger devs want to invent a new way to do relationships every time they have to implement a new one.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#113

Post by Mc_Big_G »

andrey_utkin wrote: post #97
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #74

45. Still coding, probably until I die. Light years ahead of younger developers in the following: * Writing less code * Writing maintainable code * Re-using existing code (requires reading existing code) * Know how APIs should be written * Knowing how to properly map associations * Know when or when not to use another library * Knowing when to tell a product manager to go back and do some more product managing * Know…

> Forcing PMs to use software designed for the purpose of creating software instead of accepting requirements through email/slack/invision/zeplin/google docs/tool of someone else's choice Could you please specify examples of proper software for this purpose (communicating product/feature requirements is meant here I suppose)? Do you mean reqs must go through the issue tracker or official original spec document?

I'm referring to using a ticket system like Jira/Assembla/Pivotal Tracker/Trello etc...

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#114

Post by colmvp »

numinary1 wrote: post #62

What's up with the phrase, "Still programming?" Would anyone think it odd for a 60-year-old physician to still be doctoring, or a 60-year-old lawyer to still practice law. Or for that matter for a 60-year-old artist or craftsperson to "still" pursue their craft. Corporate culture embraces the notion of management as a profession. I think programming would benefit greatly from more of a tradecraft model, where leaders…

> Or for that matter for a 60-year-old artist or craftsperson to "still" pursue their craft.

I still find it rare for 50 or 60-something designers to still be actively hands-on designing purely as a designer. At a certain point, a lot of the ones I know of migrate into creative direction and ideation, delegating the hands-on work to younger designers. It actually scares me a tad because I like being hands-on and generally dislike focusing my time on managerial activities, but it's always going to be hard to just limit oneself in that role as the younger generation will always be a little bit faster and more talented.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#115

Post by [deleted] »

mod wrote: post #82
Mc_Big_G wrote: post #74

45. Still coding, probably until I die. Light years ahead of younger developers in the following: * Writing less code * Writing maintainable code * Re-using existing code (requires reading existing code) * Know how APIs should be written * Knowing how to properly map associations * Know when or when not to use another library * Knowing when to tell a product manager to go back and do some more product managing * Know…

> Saying "I don't know" when asked "How long will it take" or "When will it be done" ~5 years experience speaking: How do you do this? I have a very good boss and he knows things, objectively, like "estimates are very squishy," and "developers suck at estimating time" etc. But he still demands time estimates to give clients. Our clients are often agencies, and they get it as well. I do estimates like "10-40 hours, de…

[deleted]

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#116

Post by discreteevent »

Dave Cutler - 75.

Lead developer on VMS, NT and Azure. Working on the core of XBox up to couple of years ago (still is?).

I won't say what age I am when the article seems to think that 45 is relatively old, but Dave Cutler shows that there's no excuses. If you're good, you're good, young or old.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#117

Post by taway_1212 »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #113
andrey_utkin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing PMs to use software designed for the purpose of creating software instead of accepting requirements through email/slack/invision/zeplin/google docs/tool of someone else's choice Could you please specify examples of proper software for this purpose (communicating product/feature requirements is meant here I suppose)? Do you mean reqs must go through the issue tracker or official original spec document?

I'm referring to using a ticket system like Jira/Assembla/Pivotal Tracker/Trello etc...

Lol for a second I thought you meant something like Rational RequisitePro...

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#118

Post by pjmlp »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #74

45. Still coding, probably until I die. Light years ahead of younger developers in the following: * Writing less code * Writing maintainable code * Re-using existing code (requires reading existing code) * Know how APIs should be written * Knowing how to properly map associations * Know when or when not to use another library * Knowing when to tell a product manager to go back and do some more product managing * Know…

On my 40's, a bit younger than you, I agree with every point.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#119

Post by andrewmcwatters »

wvenable wrote: post #104
criddell wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 10 years older than you but feel the same way. I would be interested in hearing from people that did make the jump to management. Why did you do it? How did it turn out? Any regrets about making the jump or for not making the jump sooner?

I manage a small team of developers and still do a lot of development myself. My reason for doing it is that because what I want to work on now is bigger than a single person. I have a vision of what I want to accomplish and I can't do it all myself. So far it's turned out well and I have no regrets. For me it wasn't a jump at all, just a gradual progression of what I've already been doing.

Thank you for posting this point of view. I have a feeling there's plenty of people on HN like this, but I don't see others explicitly talk about it often.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#120

Post by justin66 »

cryptonector wrote: post #84
numinary1 wrote: post #62

What's up with the phrase, "Still programming?" Would anyone think it odd for a 60-year-old physician to still be doctoring, or a 60-year-old lawyer to still practice law. Or for that matter for a 60-year-old artist or craftsperson to "still" pursue their craft. Corporate culture embraces the notion of management as a profession. I think programming would benefit greatly from more of a tradecraft model, where leaders…

There is a reason graybeards are valuable. It's not that they're over 50 or 60. It's experience. A full-stack developer with 20 years' worth of experience will not make certain kinds of mistakes.

Does anyone with 20 years experience refer to themselves as a "full-stack developer?"
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