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Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

phys.org

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Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#161

Post by greenshackle2 »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #111
aw3c2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever killed a fly because it annoyed you? This is not much different. In fact, this was done for science.

I try not to kill flies, no. The only exception is for multiple flies that won't go away. Ditto for ants. It's a bit strange that violence toward insects is fine, but violence towards dogs is not. Ever killed a dog because it annoyed you? That said, doing it for science at least has a justification.

Do you eat animal products?

I find it much stranger that violence towards farm animals is ok but not pets.

At least there are principled reasons to care less about insects (much less complex nervous system), I can find no principled reason to care more for dogs than pigs.

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#162

Post by mikeash »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #111
aw3c2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever killed a fly because it annoyed you? This is not much different. In fact, this was done for science.

I try not to kill flies, no. The only exception is for multiple flies that won't go away. Ditto for ants. It's a bit strange that violence toward insects is fine, but violence towards dogs is not. Ever killed a dog because it annoyed you? That said, doing it for science at least has a justification.

It's because insects have such a primitive nervous system that we don't see them as being aware in the same way that a dog is.

You draw the line somewhere, right? Drawing the line at a certain complexity of the nervous system is more sensible than drawing it at "animals" in general, IMO.

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#163

Post by mikeash »

notpresident wrote: post #126
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try not to kill flies, no. The only exception is for multiple flies that won't go away. Ditto for ants. It's a bit strange that violence toward insects is fine, but violence towards dogs is not. Ever killed a dog because it annoyed you? That said, doing it for science at least has a justification.

Tangentially related and I expect a 50% chance to be punished for this but it is really interesting and I think it deserves some thought: It always surprises me how a number of HNers worries about killing insects, even for science - all while supporting the killing of unborn children.

Can you point out individuals who hold both positions, or do you just expect the entire community to be consistent for some reason?

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#164

Post by justifier »

philipkglass wrote: post #148

This is scientifically very interesting but pretty much orthogonal to solving problems with plastic pollution. The worms can't live in landfills. If you could separate the plastic before landfilling to feed it to worms, then you could just burn whatever separated plastic can't be recycled. (Yes, that releases CO2, but so does having worms and bacteria eat the plastic.) The problem with plastic as waste isn't that it…

Do you have sources? The paper cited in the article only tangentially talks about byproducts:

> The most frequent hydrocarbon bond is the CH2–CH2, as in PE (Figure S1B). Although the molecular details of wax biodegradation require further investigation, it seems likely that the C–C single bond of these aliphatic compounds is one of the targets of digestion.

Which seems to imply methylene(o) as the byproduct?

Also burning plastic releases more than just CO2:

> The most dangerous emissions can be caused by burning plastics containing organoch- lor-based substances like PVC. When such plastics are burned, harmful quantities of dioxins, a group of highly toxic chemicals are emitted. Dioxins are the most toxic to the human organisms. (i)

(o) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylene_(compound)

(i) http://www.wecf.eu/cms/download/2004-2005/homeburning_plasti...

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#165

Post by prodikl »

mark-r wrote: post #151
framebit wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mismanaged landfills can have some unpleasant effects on the surrounding environment, like smell in the air or seeping pollutants into groundwater.

Speaking of, don't they use plastic liners to keep the pollutants out of the groundwater? Filling landfills with a chemical to break down plastic could backfire badly.

pretty sure we could come up with another type of liner

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#166

Post by EGreg »

jakeogh wrote: post #89
aw3c2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever killed a fly because it annoyed you? This is not much different. In fact, this was done for science.

Do we really need the /s tag on something so obvious?

What /s tag? It seems genuine and has NO TAG.

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#167

Post by cokeandsympathy »

ensiferum wrote: post #76
jeffdavis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you claim that your solution is logical, but using a caterpillar is not?

If something is a an environmental problem which do you think is better. a) not create the problem in the first place b) start creating a solution to the environmental problem you created

Is the problem posed to the environment from plastics greater than the human benefit from their use?

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#168

Post by philipkglass »

justifier wrote: post #164
philipkglass wrote: post #148

This is scientifically very interesting but pretty much orthogonal to solving problems with plastic pollution. The worms can't live in landfills. If you could separate the plastic before landfilling to feed it to worms, then you could just burn whatever separated plastic can't be recycled. (Yes, that releases CO2, but so does having worms and bacteria eat the plastic.) The problem with plastic as waste isn't that it…

Do you have sources? The paper cited in the article only tangentially talks about byproducts: > The most frequent hydrocarbon bond is the CH2–CH2, as in PE (Figure S1B). Although the molecular details of wax biodegradation require further investigation, it seems likely that the C–C single bond of these aliphatic compounds is one of the targets of digestion. Which seems to imply methylene(o) as the byproduct? Also bur…

Yes, the combustion of PVC and other halogenated hydrocarbons can produce dioxins. This worm digests polyethylene, a halogen-free hydrocarbon that does not produce dioxins even if burned.

The article says "The analysis showed the worms transformed the polyethylene into ethylene glycol, representing un-bonded 'monomer' molecules." Methylene itself is an extremely reactive species that cannot be isolated outside of exotic conditions such as trapping in a frozen noble gas matrix.

Ethylene glycol has a short environmental half-life and is oxidized to simple compounds like CO2 and H2O by a variety of processes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11302583

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gordon_Craig/publicatio...

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#169

Post by jonnybgood »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #161
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try not to kill flies, no. The only exception is for multiple flies that won't go away. Ditto for ants. It's a bit strange that violence toward insects is fine, but violence towards dogs is not. Ever killed a dog because it annoyed you? That said, doing it for science at least has a justification.

Do you eat animal products? I find it much stranger that violence towards farm animals is ok but not pets. At least there are principled reasons to care less about insects (much less complex nervous system), I can find no principled reason to care more for dogs than pigs.

The principled reason to care more for dogs from my understanding is mutualism. Dogs are dogs because of humans. Same for cats.

Re: Caterpillar found to eat shopping bags, suggesting solution to plastic pollution

#170

Post by Raphmedia »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #137
Raphmedia wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As any reptile owner will tell you, wax worms will eat through plastic containers so you should store them in glass. It's common knowledge. It is however amazing that nobody (me included) never thought that this could be a solution to our plastic issues. "It's common knowledge, why waste time thinking about it?"

They probably assumed scientists already knew about it but didn't think it was a bid deal.

I wonder how many things are hidden that way.
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