Why doesn't Nintendo port old NES/SNES/GameBoy games to smartphones and sell them for $1-$2 each? They're so much more fun than all these compulsive microtransaction games.
Cause without buttons they suck :)
Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
51–60 of 89 posts
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neat idea, but I guarantee they would find a way to shut that down too, even if it's completely legitimate and completely non-harmful from a copyright stance. Nintendo is incredibly hostile to even fair use, let alone something closer to the line like what you described.
yes. Nintendo is even hostile to Youtubers playing their games. Is it possible to copyright even the hardware somehow? I know that they sued someone who created an emulator while they were still selling the NES.
Is it possible to copyright even the hardware somehow?
A lay (IANAL, IANYL, TINLA) view of existing US case law would say no. Nintendo made and then withdrew a suit against the makers of UltraHLE, an early N64 emulator. Again, withdrawn, so nothing was decided.
More interestingly, Sony tried something similar against Bleem!, a commercial Playstation emulator, in 1999. Sony lost, but the legal costs drove the company out of business anyways.
So really, if you want to develop an emulator for modern hardware without getting lawyerpwned, you have to do something like:
1) Figure out a way to dump the (copyrighted) ROM that makes the various bits of the system work. The code signing involved makes this process completely illicit per DMCA, but there's apparently no standing to sue as long as you aren't distributing the results. (And then there's that fair use exemption for discussion and education besides)
2) Either clean room reverse engineer it with help, or make the dumping process easy enough that you can instruct others how to do it. PS2 emulator devs take the second option - every PS2 emulator requires a copy of the PS2 bios to work.
3) Hardware design isn't copyrightable, so you're fine with reimplementing the CPU in code.
This means that if you want to make your hardware emulator-proof, it's just like all DRM. You are doomed to fail, it's just a matter of how long.
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The party in question saying "Yes yes, that's illegal" isn't worth the bytes used to transmit the message.
I see your point. However, these are the lawyers of the party that sold their consumers the license to play the game. Remember, you don't actually own the game. You own a license to play the game on the medium you purchased. If the company that sold you the license also says that copying the game to a different medium and playing it there is not part of the original license, they kind of are allowed to say that. Note…
You own a license to play the game on the medium you purchased.
Copyright law in the US includes the concept of fair use, which includes rights that the owner doesn't get a say in.
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I bought the game in 1989 I can still legally play it in digital form, yes? No, that's not how copyright works. That's a myth. In some cases you can make a backup of the game if you do it yourself. But you still can't download someone else's copy. > I'm not sure why copyright now means a company can charge me 100 times for the same product in different forms. Because copyright means the company that sold you the…
Your first point is not so clear cut. A ROM is a ROM is a ROM. Do you have any citations where you own a physical copy and use an identical digital copy from a different physical source a breach of copyright?
It's good enough for Nintendo: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-18-did-nintendo-do...
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I bought the game in 1989 I can still legally play it in digital form, yes? No, that's not how copyright works. That's a myth. In some cases you can make a backup of the game if you do it yourself. But you still can't download someone else's copy. > I'm not sure why copyright now means a company can charge me 100 times for the same product in different forms. Because copyright means the company that sold you the…
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html "Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if: the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only; you are the legal owner of the copy; and any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise tra…
IANAL, but:
Someone else can do it with the legitimate copy you own, e.g. I take my cartridge to the copy shop and the tech copies it to a floppy for me. The fact that someone online could send me exactly the same data is irrelevant.
Legally I'm pretty sure that lending a physical copy and making a digital copy are incomparable. And to be sure, a copy is made when the server sends you the ROM.
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#56Why doesn't Nintendo port old NES/SNES/GameBoy games to smartphones and sell them for $1-$2 each? They're so much more fun than all these compulsive microtransaction games.
Virtual console sales. Nintendo doesn't want you to play those titles on a tiny touch screen. I agree with them there; screen + tactile buttons are a much superior way to play.
The heart of it all is in the virtual console emulator though. If you want to play Super Mario World, Metroid, Earthbound, and other classic titles, they want you to go through their store on their systems where they have total control. The DS family and Switch are both portable systems, so to them, there isn't much incentive to make sure Android/iOS emulation are bug free.
There is also that stigma attached to paying for mobile games. I mean, Super Mario Run did really well, and it is a polished runner that (in my opinion) is worth the full price tag. But the prevailing logic is still that paid games are for consoles/Steam and free games are mobile fodder.
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neat idea, but I guarantee they would find a way to shut that down too, even if it's completely legitimate and completely non-harmful from a copyright stance. Nintendo is incredibly hostile to even fair use, let alone something closer to the line like what you described.
yes. Nintendo is even hostile to Youtubers playing their games. Is it possible to copyright even the hardware somehow? I know that they sued someone who created an emulator while they were still selling the NES.
BIOS ROMs can be copyrighted, without which a system won't work, though they can be reverse engineered in a legally defensible way. An interesting read on the history of computer cloning here:
http://www.filfre.net/2014/10/send-in-the-clones/
The NES had no BIOS, though.
What I'd be more worried about is patents, though I think they've all expired by now for anything that would have applied to the original NES hardware.
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes. Nintendo is even hostile to Youtubers playing their games. Is it possible to copyright even the hardware somehow? I know that they sued someone who created an emulator while they were still selling the NES.
BIOS ROMs can be copyrighted, without which a system won't work, though they can be reverse engineered in a legally defensible way. An interesting read on the history of computer cloning here: http://www.filfre.net/2014/10/send-in-the-clones/ The NES had no BIOS, though. What I'd be more worried about is patents, though I think they've all expired by now for anything that would have applied to the original NES hardwa…
How does any computer not have a BIOS????
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
BIOS ROMs can be copyrighted, without which a system won't work, though they can be reverse engineered in a legally defensible way. An interesting read on the history of computer cloning here: http://www.filfre.net/2014/10/send-in-the-clones/ The NES had no BIOS, though. What I'd be more worried about is patents, though I think they've all expired by now for anything that would have applied to the original NES hardwa…
How does any computer not have a BIOS????
The cartridge just plugs directly into the CPU, essentially every game provides its own BIOS. You can only get away with this with systems where software is provided on pluggable ROMs, Fairchild Channel F being the first video game example and similarly the better-known Atari VCS (aka 2600).
Technically the NES does have a ROM in the CIC lockout chip, which talks to another CIC on the cartridge to ensure it is a legitimate copy, but this is entirely irrelevant to gameplay and invisible to software (unlike similar chips on the N64 which the game could check at runtime). Indeed with the NES-101 (toploader) this was removed, arguably to improve reliability (if you ever saw the blinking LED on an NES, that's the CIC resetting the hardware).
Re: Show HN: Play multiplayer and singleplayer NES games online
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I bought the game in 1989 I can still legally play it in digital form, yes? I'm not sure why copyright now means a company can charge me 100 times for the same product in different forms. It didn't used to and I'm not sure how this changed mindset in any way helps creators or society.
> If I bought the game in 1989 I can still legally play it in digital form, yes? No, that's not how copyright works. That's a myth. In some cases you can make a backup of the game if you do it yourself. But you still can't download someone else's copy. > I'm not sure why copyright now means a company can charge me 100 times for the same product in different forms. Because copyright means the company that sold you the…
However I cannot make a backup of a NES/SNES cartridge that I legally own so this is the only method open to most people to actually obtain a digital backup of software they legally own.