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Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

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Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#52
post #8

What about Linus Torvalds? Born: Linus Benedict Torvalds, December 28, 1969 (age 47), Helsinki, Finland I guess he's still coding, right? Does it count?

Fabrice Bellward is 45, John Carmack is 46. Michael Abrash is probably in his mid-50's. Rob Pike, Guido Von Rossum, and Larry Wall are all still programming and they're in their 60's. I think it's safe to say you won't magically lose your programming ability as you get older.

Van, not von.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#53

".. However, StackOverflow’s survey on age shows that there are just about 13% of developers after 40. Where are the others?" Obviously not on StackOverflow. Perhaps they have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site because they either know how to read tech books and sites to get the info they need when they have a problem using pre-existing docs, or conversely, are fully able to debug issues themselves.…

I'm 48 and use StackOverflow... not so much because I can't read tech books and docs, but because often times it's faster to at least get a lead (and to be fair, I'm usually using a search engine which in turn places StackOverflow answers towards the top of my result list). Also, if it's tech that I'm less familiar with, I'm often times looking for how others think about the issue I'm looking at which you often times don't get from documentation. Sometimes, I'm looking for contrary arguments if I've decided on an approach/usage but am less confident of my direction.

Now I do use my experience and knowledge to decide if I think any given answer on StackOverflow is likely to be "correct" in some sense (and by no means are all the answers, accepted or not, good all the time)... and there are occasions where I end up just going back to straight docs.

I have worked with other very smart over 40's (and over 50's) that do something similar to what I do with StackOverflow. I know none of us would take an online survey either.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#54

68, coding since 1965. There is no better job. I hope to be coding the week I leave. (Note: there are more useful jobs: doctor, nurse, farmer).

Doctors rely on software a lot to do their job. One day they may even be replaced by software.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fabrice Bellward is 45, John Carmack is 46. Michael Abrash is probably in his mid-50's. Rob Pike, Guido Von Rossum, and Larry Wall are all still programming and they're in their 60's. I think it's safe to say you won't magically lose your programming ability as you get older.

But you do lose the patience to keep using what amounts to the reinvention of the wheel and having the same problems over and over, and you do lose much of your free time to other responsibilities, which manifests itself in not having the time to play with every new tech under the sun.

I agree, but I think you lose that patience for reinvention in about year 6, not year 21. So, dealing with it becomes part of being a software developer. If you can't, you won't get to year 7.

And yes, there are more responsibilities with age, which means you also have to improve your time management. But, that's not unique to software developers. Waiting to see how new technology evolves before jumping on the band wagon is a good time management strategy for software developers.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#56
post #6

".. However, StackOverflow’s survey on age shows that there are just about 13% of developers after 40. Where are the others?" Obviously not on StackOverflow. Perhaps they have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site because they either know how to read tech books and sites to get the info they need when they have a problem using pre-existing docs, or conversely, are fully able to debug issues themselves.…

I don't understand how someone can "have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site" . I use StackOverflow practically all the time. I always think to myself, "yep, this (Wikipedia, YouTube and... yah HN) is what the internet is for" . But maybe I'm just too young. (I'm 47 ;) )

>I don't understand how someone can "have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site".

If you've been programming for a couple of decades and you don't follow the trends du jour it's actually quite easy (note: I'm not at that level myself).

Seasoned C and C++ programmers, for example, don't have much to learn from Stack Overflow in the same way a (1) new programmer, (2) 0-20 years programmer who constantly juggles languages, APIs and frameworks etc depending on the job and the fads of the season.

You think someone like Linus checks SO to get his answers?

There are tons of programmers with such levels of experience (even if somewhat less so than Linus).

Let's put it another way: before 2008 NO programmer checked "Stack Overflow" all the time. Before 2000 they didn't even have Google, and before 1995 or so they didn't have much (if anything) in the way of online documentation and similar resources.

That's not ancient history: a 20 year-ish programmer has managed for 10+ years of their career without Stack Overflow.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps they are less likely to create an account.

That's my bet. I've gotten away without asking any questions on stack overflow since its genesis. There's usually enough already asked on there that I can synthesize the answer or trigger an idea for something to try that ends up working.

Yeah, and I feel there's not much point contributing answers either, because it seems most situations are either:

1. Simple and quickly snapped up by other users who are aggressively trying to grow their reputation on the site (perhaps with more free-time than I) and there's a first-response advantage that crowds out later answers.

2. Duplicate of something else. Why bother making a good answer when it'll get closed because somebody else happens to think a different question is the "better" one?

3. Way outside my expertise and it's probably better for everyone involved if I don't try to answer when I'm not sure.

So in a way SO is a victim of its own success when it comes to lowered engagement.

P.S.: I've even had an answer I was proud of converted into a "community wiki" just for a few tiny wording changes, with the side-effect that I get no reputation from it. So yeah, it seems like a rat-race.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#58
57, I build and maintain 911 (911, E911, V911), Telematics, Alarm, PERS and custom SIP programming systems. On any given day my job is a software developer, dba, systems analyst, process analyst and data analyst, sysadmin. Not mention fire putter outer and consult with outside companies to best implement their requirements.

But I'd rather be out riding my motorcycle.

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#59

".. However, StackOverflow’s survey on age shows that there are just about 13% of developers after 40. Where are the others?" Obviously not on StackOverflow. Perhaps they have enough experience and knowledge to not need the site because they either know how to read tech books and sites to get the info they need when they have a problem using pre-existing docs, or conversely, are fully able to debug issues themselves.…

> Obviously not on StackOverflow

Definitely. The content on Stack Overflow is heavily weighted towards languages and specialties less likely to be of interest to older programmers. We (I'm 51) are far more likely to be working on infrastructure and devops than on front-end. To do it, we're using C, maybe C++, maybe Python or even perl and bash, not Java, definitely not JavaScript or any of its variants, or Erlang, or Clojure, or whatever. Not always, but much of the time. The things we need to know are scantly represented on SO.

The atmosphere on SO is probably also more of a turn-off for older programmers. Those who are established don't need to bulk up their karma on some website, and the one-upmanship from the resident karma whores gets tiresome really fast. So does the rules lawyering that leads to answers being hidden, questions being closed, and so on. The few times I've found myself there, it has seemed like a game and a distraction that I just don't have the time or inclination to keep playing, so I get out and don't come back for months. For those with broad work responsibilities plus homes and families and other outside connections, life's too short to spend much of it in a virtual mosh pit. HN is enough for that. ;)

Re: Software Developers after 40, 50 and 60 Who're Still Coding

#60

"StackOverflow’s survey on age shows that there are just about 13% of developers after 40. Where are the others?" Not wasting time filling out online surveys? I'm not even 40 yet and I realised online surveys were a waste of time years ago. :-) A stackoverflow survey doesn't measure the answers of stackoverflow users. It measures the answers from the specific demographic of stackoverflow users who are inclined to ans…

There is still some truth to it. I'm 37 and have had to repeatedly and forcefully turn down managerial roles. The idea of horizontal growth is a hard sell to people who've chosen the vertical path. It would be very easy to drift into a management role, and in fact it happened to me once and I had to take deliberate action to get off the management track.

I don't want to manage people. I want to build, and learn about building. And I hope to be lucky enough to do that until retirement age.

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