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NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

nasa.gov

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Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#81

Post by ucontrol »

ysavir wrote: post #67
ucontrol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent observation. Most critical? Maybe not. But it is undoubtedly very much a significant and underrecognized factor. The Overview Effect is a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect

Intoxication is real as well, but I rarely apply any of my drunken epiphanies when sober.

I understand what point you are trying to make, but it's hardly a fitting analogy, and I don't think it's a fair point.

One is a short-lasting altered state of consciousness.

The other is an idea, a change of perspective that can inspire action and positive lifestyle change. Or perhaps a descent into nihilism, depending on circumstance.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#82

Post by dorgo »

jimmyk wrote: post #55
ensiferum wrote: post #13

That tiny little speck in that endless blackness is us. All of the human race living on this tiny rock fighting over who owns which piece of land and whose religion is most peaceful. All the world leaders should be spent to space to understand how insignificant we are and how petty and insignificant our disagreements are.

What do you expect out of creatures that were molded by billions of years of evolution? If their ancestors hadn't been willing to fight over pieces of that rock, whether that willingness came from genetics or culture, they wouldn't be here today. I'm not aware of any good reason to believe that's about to change.

Environment is changing. Fighting over pieces of that rock may be less beneficial in our age. Evolution will teach us to change.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#83

Post by jimmyk »

dorgo wrote: post #82
jimmyk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you expect out of creatures that were molded by billions of years of evolution? If their ancestors hadn't been willing to fight over pieces of that rock, whether that willingness came from genetics or culture, they wouldn't be here today. I'm not aware of any good reason to believe that's about to change.

Environment is changing. Fighting over pieces of that rock may be less beneficial in our age. Evolution will teach us to change.

Could you expand on that?

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#84

Post by nkkollaw »

jacquesm wrote: post #78
nkkollaw wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't color allow to observe the features a lot better? To me you lose a lot of details when you remove the color (although I would think there isn't a lot of color in space).

Color isn't so much removed as it is filtered out to improve the sensitivity in other bands. By filtering out visible light (or least, most of it) other bands can be imaged with much higher sensitivity (but it is also possible just to filter out a visible band of the spectrum for imaging). Just like you can't see IR right now with the naked eye but you could see a BW print of an IR filtered image (that's a 'false col…

Good explanation, thanks.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#85

Post by kitsunesoba »

ucontrol wrote: post #79
nsxwolf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you could insert any other human concern into those enumerated in "Pale Blue Dot", and they become just as easily diminished. Like human rights, for instance. Who cares about female genital mutilation - after all, Betelgeuse is huge , man! Who cares about something as small as a clitoris?

See, I have always considered that it had the opposite effect - by looking at the big picture, putting things in perspective and calling for a more humanistic outlook on life, it inspires empathy and action towards "making the world a better place". Far from trivializing widespread issues such as the ones you pointed out. But then again, you already acknowledged this out in your previous comment, and I get that here…

This is how I take it too. Sagan isn't saying that all human problems are insignificant or unimportant, but it's entirely true that many of the things we fight over and even kill each other over are, when put into perspective, pretty stupid. The whole point is to take a step back and carefully evaluate things as a first course of action and to try to save conflict and aggression for situations where it's meaningful and likely to make a positive impact in the bigger picture.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#86

Post by freeflight »

jimmyk wrote: post #83
dorgo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Environment is changing. Fighting over pieces of that rock may be less beneficial in our age. Evolution will teach us to change.

Could you expand on that?

While I'm not the OP, I believe I get his point:

With the environment changing so do the evolutionary advantages that come with the environment. In that regard, an evolutionary trait that is considered disadvantageous in one environment might be actually advantageous in a different environment.

Case in point: Humans fighting over rocks.

When there were only a few humans around but lots of "good rocks" to fight over, being competitive for the few humans might have been an advantage. Because there had been enough "good rocks" around so everybody could get their own piece of rock if they compete and some can even get more than just one rock.

Now change the ratio between humans and "good rocks", whether that be because there are a lot more humans than there used to be or because there are far fewer "good rocks" around to compete for or simply a combination of both.

In such a scenario competition for the sole ownership these few remaining "good rocks" between big numbers of humans, might be a massive resource waste compared to a more cooperative approach that doesn't pit everybody against each other for a scarce resource.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#87

Post by ismail »

cjauvin wrote: post #48
luxpir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right in that everyone should be aware of the scale of the universe. But importance seems to be fractal in the way that electrons are important to protons, salty and sweet food is important to me, stars to planets, galaxies to universes and so on. We are important, to ourselves. And I think that's OK.

The analogy with fractals is beautiful, and quite illuminating IMO.

Yep. Great analogy.

There's a book: Where good ideas come from.

The thesis is that most of nature is fractral and in it The author draws parallels to innovation.

https://www.amazon.com/Where-Good-Ideas-Come-From/dp/1594487...

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#89

Post by jimmyk »

freeflight wrote: post #86
jimmyk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on that?

While I'm not the OP, I believe I get his point: With the environment changing so do the evolutionary advantages that come with the environment. In that regard, an evolutionary trait that is considered disadvantageous in one environment might be actually advantageous in a different environment. Case in point: Humans fighting over rocks. When there were only a few humans around but lots of "good rocks" to fight over,…

It may certainly be a massive resource waste compared to an idealized system where everyone chooses to selflessly cooperate. But what is going to happen to the people in your scenario who choose not to compete for control over a slice of the rock when other people continue to compete for control over a slice of the rock?

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#90

Post by dorgo »

jimmyk wrote: post #83
dorgo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Environment is changing. Fighting over pieces of that rock may be less beneficial in our age. Evolution will teach us to change.

Could you expand on that?

how it used to be: you fight, win and get some rewards or loose and leave with a bleeding nose. How it is now: you fight and everybody dies from nuclear / bio / nano / .. weapon.
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