Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was in this video but don't remember exactly when. https://youtu.be/r8RxkpUvxK0
Direct Link: https://youtu.be/r8RxkpUvxK0?t=530
Yup, this is the video!! Not an urban legend.
Google: My interview experience
151–160 of 164 posts
Re: Google: My interview experience
#152As always, remember that even technical interviews like this one have an incredible amount of random chance built into the hiring process. This is especially true at a big company like Google (where I work and do interviews). Do they happen to have positions open right now? Did you happen to get asked questions that clicked with you? Was the hiring committee feeling grouchy that day? Did you get an especially harsh i…
One of the most frustrating things I've seen is that interviewers/recruiters themselves couldn't stand up to the same rigor of questions which they expect from applicants. In one such company, I asked a question on "algorithmic fairness, accountability and transparency" about core algorithms they used for their business. First, it came across as a bit of a rude shock to them - they hadn't heard about it. Second, they…
I've worked for a company that's given pretty much the same two hour on-site test for years, and several times the people in charge of the hiring decisions have forgotten how to do parts of it (it's an open office, I've heard them admit it to the candidates).
It amazes me how they rejected so many people on this test over the years (seems to be over 90% rejections), when they can't keep it straight themselves. Granted they were always busy on other things, but still. Even I barely passed the test.
That being said, they left you alone for two hours while you work on it, sitting in the same environment where other devs are working, which I found much better than some other interviews, the worst of which was coding a full project on a laptop for a platform I haven't worked on professionally in over a year and was a bit rusty on, while one person stared at me from across a desk and a second person stood behind me and looked down at the screen over my shoulder.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#153As always, remember that even technical interviews like this one have an incredible amount of random chance built into the hiring process. This is especially true at a big company like Google (where I work and do interviews). Do they happen to have positions open right now? Did you happen to get asked questions that clicked with you? Was the hiring committee feeling grouchy that day? Did you get an especially harsh i…
> There's a decent amount that you can do to prepare for one of these things, but there's also an incredible amount you don't have control over. This is where I call bullshit. This person prepared for six months. You can't tell someone to not take something personally if he or she took six months of their life to study up, only to hit a dead end because your company didn't find it within themselves to take control of…
I interviewed at Google with a no-hire. I asked for 3 weeks to brush up on algorithms and data structures. I should have asked for 3-6 months.
This is where it falls apart for me, though. Based on my experience, you really do need to be extremely sharp on data structures and algorithms, and you need to be able to do it at the whiteboard.
I have my own opinion on this, like everyone. Personally, I'm completely ok with requiring a data structures and algorithms "entrance exam" for many software development positions. I see it as similar to the vector calculus and linear algebra exam required of actuaries.
My problem is with the implementation. Actuaries take a well vetted exam, with a clear study path, and when they pass it, they get a lasting credential respected in their industry. In short, taking and passing this exam means they don't have to submit to potentially random and capricious (and unpredictable) exam based interviews (really, after 6 hours at the whiteboard doing programming problems why do we call this an interview? It's an exam, pure and simple).
Here's the thing - I'd do this for a lasting credential. I'd accept that this is a test I have to take, and properly study for. I'd take my 6 months, and I'd put in the time. What I'm not willing to do is take this test over and over and over, every time I interview at a new company. I just don't walk around with this stuff loaded into short term memory. I don't walk around ready to take my undergraduate data structures and algorithms test. And I think I've taken it for the last time.
Same for vector calc and linear algebra. I did well in these classes in college, and if I were interested in being an actuary, I'd study up and get back to that level I was at just before I took my exams in college. But no, I'm not interested in allowing a random person at a company to put me through the exams again.
This is why I'm pretty much done with technical interviewing and tests. I'll find some other way to participate in this field, or leave it altogether if that turns out not to be possible.
I do wish tech leaders, who so constantly bray about a shortage in our field, would recognize the extent to which their behavior and practices drive talented people out of programming and into other fields. They didn't stumble upon this shortage, they created it. And every crutch we give them just allows them to continue with business as usual.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really wouldn't make that conclusion until you knew what job he was interviewing for. Firmware development? Sure, you might be right. iOS developer? Unlikely that low level bit manipulation is going to be a good indicator of his ability to succeed in that role. That's not to say its irrelevant, but, just not a quality indicator for that role in my opinion.
Maybe Google hires firmware developers, but I think they don't hire iOS developers. They hire "software engineers", and throw problems at them. (Or rather, these generic software engineers migrate toward problems that interest them in the long run.) It prevents Google from having, say, more "iOS developers" than they need when they decide to concentrate on other products. We may debate the merit of this strategy, but…
This isn't really disagreeing with you, but I was contacted by them specifically for my iOS development experience. They have several iOS apps, and they do have a demand for that type of work.
However, everything I was tested on was general SWE data and algorithmic questions. I never once got asked about anything iOS related at all. I remember one was a Google Voice question specifically, and another was a really strange converting 3D to 2D graphics conversion algorithm question that I'm still not quite sure how to tackle, and another was like reversing the bits in an image, I think, and I don't really remember the others anymore.
Also, if you go in for iOS, do not whiteboard in Objective-C or you will have a really bad time. I kept running out of space on the whiteboard because of its ridiculously long method names.
Simple example:
Objective-C: NSString *items = [[[NSArray alloc] initWithObjects:@"1",@"2",nil] componentsJoinedByString:@","];
Python: items = ",".join(["1","2"])
98 symbols vs 27 symbols. Over 3x as long.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#155Better than my interview experience. Sailed through the phone interview, went in person for the day long interview. Most were no problem except for one that took longer than it should have. And then... Nothing. Radio silence. No emails. No answered emails. I had ceased to exist. After that colossal waste of time, I decided to only work remote.
I don't think that's standard for them. I did get a phone call for my rejection from Google after my onsite, after a couple of weeks. They actually told me to study for 18 months and try again, that many people do that and get in the second time.
Yeah....sorry, I can't afford to study for 18 months straight for a job.
I've actually had Google recruiters get back in touch with me a few times since then, but I wasn't ready to go through the gauntlet again. Maybe if I didn't have to study like a madman for at least a month beforehand to even have a chance.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Just try again in a year" is a good option when you're young. But it gets less attractive as you get older, especially if it means abandoning an interesting project or senior role you accepted after "Company X" rejected you. There are too many good opportunities out there to get hung up on any one company.
I've lost track of the number of times I've gone through the interview wringer at Google. It sounds like a great place to work, which is unanimously confirmed by a number of people I know who work there, but I'm no longer going to go out of my way looking for the chance. Prepping and going through the process is like a second full-time job. And so unnecessary. Think about it--it's Google. They should have enough data…
> Think about it--it's Google. They should have enough data on me by now to know my skills and potential with high confidence, to the point where their interview shouldn't even need humans in the loop.
That's a good point. They should be able to determine all they need to with some machine learning based on my google searches for stackexchange and other related sites (with syntax checking filtered out).
Actually, that might be a good project. If you kept track of your google searches and presented that to your potential employer, let them see if the types of things you were working on were worthy or not.
I'm actually half serious about this.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's a decent amount that you can do to prepare for one of these things, but there's also an incredible amount you don't have control over. This is super important. Don't take it personally at all. They're using the randomness as a flow control. They are always attracting more talent than they actually need purposely to keep the reservoir full and just running the extra through the spill gates. Just taking a rid…
> If you don't get the job, it's not a signal regarding your quality as an engineer and you shouldn't interpret it as such (however tempting it may be to do so). Of course "not getting a job" is a "signal regarding your quality as an engineer". We need to keep this toxic mindset out of tech and silicon valley. The idea that everyone is smart, special, and deserves a job at Google, is completely false. There are peopl…
you missed the context. OP was describing ways in which qualified candidates are rejected anyway because, in that particular time and place, there were even better candidates also interviewing, or that the teams that were hiring changed their priorities, or whatever.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think a company like Google would be able to implement a non-subjective and fair interview. Their current process must cost them a lot of talent
> Their current process must cost them a lot of talent reply They optimize to reduce false positives. They're completely fine with false negatives. They don't have any shortage of talented engineers willing to interview there. That last bit is why I think it's quite silly for smaller/unknown startups to be copying Google's interview process, as seems to be the trend.
this is good analysis. Google does things that make sense for Google. unfortunately because they are prominent many companies that aren't Google copy Google's methods uncritically. it's a disaster. I can't tell you how many times I've cringed at small tech companies that run a glorified e-commerce website interviewing candidates as if their engineering staff is 1000 instead of the 8 that it actually is.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#159> Alas, rejection Is anyone getting accepted to Google at all? So many stories of applications which failed at some point. Calls, tests, onsite, over a month of teasing. Maybe person in his/her 20s has enough time and energy to throw away for something like this.
Yes people are getting jobs. It's just the ones that don't who write the blogs that get up voted. Many college seniors I know have gotten offers without preparing that much outside of their usual work
Well, college seniors should have the easiest time getting a job at Google, since they are closest to the material that Google tests on and would have it fresh in their minds, so I wouldn't be surprised that many of them do get offers.
I have a feeling there's a significantly higher rate of failure for people who have been in the industry for 5-10 years and haven't had to most of the things they'd get tested on since college.
Re: Google: My interview experience
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe Google hires firmware developers, but I think they don't hire iOS developers. They hire "software engineers", and throw problems at them. (Or rather, these generic software engineers migrate toward problems that interest them in the long run.) It prevents Google from having, say, more "iOS developers" than they need when they decide to concentrate on other products. We may debate the merit of this strategy, but…
This isn't really disagreeing with you, but I was contacted by them specifically for my iOS development experience. They have several iOS apps, and they do have a demand for that type of work. However, everything I was tested on was general SWE data and algorithmic questions. I never once got asked about anything iOS related at all. I remember one was a Google Voice question specifically, and another was a really str…
I've never chosen to interview with Google but I have been approached by Google recruiters on multiple occasions for iOS development. To say that they don't have a need for iOS engineers, is clearly erroneous. Google has a number of iOS apps.
Just to name a few: YouTube. Gmail. Hangouts. Calendar.
Regarding your interview experience - This is precisely why I turn down every interview request from Google. If you're contacting me about iOS dev experience, question me about that domain. I find the algorithm / data structures questions to be fitting for an entry level hire, fresh out of college.