I think that it's a big mistake that universities teaches programming in CS using most popular languages. They should use more didatical languages. Not being a popular language it's in fact a huge bonus, because it will force que students to learn other languages before leaving the university. Learning new languages shouldn't be a big problem for a good computer scientist.
Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
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Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#32I'm showing my age here, but in my first year of CS we used Pascal and COBOL.
My second year was the first year they taught Java, and back then it seemed incredibly easy and powerful by comparison!
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#33I'm not sure I'd consider a decision to move from Java to JavaScript an improvement. They are going from a bloated syntax to a bad-habit goldmine. Why not go Java -> Python instead?
Because you only need a browser. When you're just a beginner, setting up an environment can be extremely painful.
While that's true, you learn a lot from going through those troubles. I disagree that we need to make it "easy" for students to get into programming by glossing over very important details like environment configuration. Someday they'll have to do it at their job - why not prepare them for it?
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#34This came up a when this same news was discussed a few days ago on some other site: The JavaScript first manifest: https://gist.github.com/rtoal/046c7be95aa077a832fcd87f5b0244... It makes a rather good (IMHO) argument that while, yes, JavaScript sucks, it does have redeeming qualities for usage as a first programming language.
I strongly disagree. The kind of bugs you can create with javascript are enough to make pl experts scratch their heads, scope is a mess and while there is no shortage of web frameworks and resources that have to do with web development outside of that the library field is surprisingly barren.
The only thing it really has going for it is distribution, if you have a browser then you can learn how to program in js.
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#35are they going to blow the dust off an old good SICP one day?
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#36Java -> JavaScript :: C -> FORTRAN
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#37Even as a JS developer, I'm not sure JS would be my goto. I actually really like introducing people through pure Ruby (so, not rails) since the syntax is pleasing, it has OO concepts but can also be used functionally, and really cuts down on the "scaryness" of the language.
Python isn't a bad choice but virtualenv, v2/v3 issues, etc do make it a bit scarier. Also there are a lot of bad tutorials out there that teach poor habits (not that JS is any better..)
ANSI C isn't a bad one either but I think it's more difficult to grasp and is slower to get results which might dissuade some new developers.
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#38I'm not sure I'd consider a decision to move from Java to JavaScript an improvement. They are going from a bloated syntax to a bad-habit goldmine. Why not go Java -> Python instead?
Because you only need a browser. When you're just a beginner, setting up an environment can be extremely painful.
It's 2017. We have other options available in a browser:
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#39I'm not sure I'd consider a decision to move from Java to JavaScript an improvement. They are going from a bloated syntax to a bad-habit goldmine. Why not go Java -> Python instead?
>>They are going from a bloated syntax to a bad-habit goldmine. That's precisely why I think it's a good idea: with proper instruction, you can teach people good habits from the start.
Not sure how that follows. You can try to teach good habits, but you're still throwing intro students into a language that doesn't care if you follow them or not.
Re: Universities finally realize that Java is a bad intro programming language
#40No one ever wrote a book called "Java: The Good Parts" (glad I don't write Java (or JavaScript) on a regular basis anymore)
Maybe because you need all the parts, so there's no benefit in differentiating them.