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CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

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Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#191
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guy videotaping from his garage. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-...

To be fair, it probably looked like a gun from a distance. The police were in the neighborhood confronting somebody with a machine gun - not smart to take an action that looks like pointing a gun in a type of situation where one side has decided they need machine guns . It's not to excuse the behavior of the police..., but if you're pointing something at the police from across the street, it's hard to see the profile…

>>It's not to excuse the behavior of the police..

Sure reads like an excuse, Justification and Full throated defense of the police actions to me

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#192
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning this. One minor adjustment I'd make to the above statement is "shoot the firearm with the intent to stop". This is a small, but important distinction. It doesn't change anything with respect to how the firearm is used (e.g., point of aim). At least from the perspective of police use of deadly force, the goal isn't to kill, it's to stop the person from continuing to be a threat. The outcome ma…

It's not minor at all, and it's exactly what I was hinting at. If the person is stopped, doesn't die, and can be subject to trial in a court of law, that is a _better_ outcome.

Would you clarify what you understand as alternatives to "aiming to kill" and how they would be effectively different from "aiming to kill"?

Edit: clarified question.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. In the same sense that a Subaru Legacy isn't considered a sports car, but with an engine / suspension change, it becomes one. Regardless, the AR15 is not in any way considered a machine gun until and unless it has been converted to be one.

Yes, sloppy delivery on my part. The weapon in the link had apparently been converted and thus fell under the NFA. I was pointing at the NFA definition and included the broader provision in my summary, I didn't mean to imply that the convertibility would have been an issue in the incident being discussed.

No worries, I just find it's important to be specific when dealing with firearms and legal terms, because the average person really doesn't understand these issues, and the political landscape is muddied by a bunch of folks who think they know things that are false.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why shouldn't they? This is a leading question, which is to say it's not a question that can be answered in a rational way. If one desires removal of choice in the conversation, they may answer it irrationally. > Look at the case of the murder of Laquan McDonald in Chicago. The use of a separate case of an individual having choice removed, or individuals in a group removing choice for an individual, applied to…

Even if that behavior is questionable, there is at least merit in raising the argument of parity. If it is unreasonable for this man to behave like that, then why is it reasonable for men vested with the authority to enforce the law for the peace of society? If we can succeed in proving that this man's behavior is contradictory with what we want for society, then it should follow that the same applies to the police f…

Chris acted irrationally and had the right to do so. However, by his intent to spread irrationality by removing the officer's choice, the officers were eventually baited into acting irrationally which then led to the arrest. If they knew more about these types of removal of choice, and how they may spread by their very presence, it may have had a different and more desirable outcome for all involved.

Detecting trolls is important, in other words.

Stating it is reasonable that an individual has a right to choose irrationality removes the leading portion of your question which itself is a removal of choice by those who attempt to answer it. Applying rational thinking to answering it reveals an important question to ask ourselves:

> Why is it reasonable for men vested with the authority to enforce the law for the peace of society?

I think it is somewhat rational for individuals of a group to elect a sub-group to make choice for the individuals. In the case of law, which is suppose to be a rational instantiation of future choice for the group, it is the peacekeepers that are responsible for making choice of who is removing choice from other individuals or the group, as a whole.

However, irrational laws and expectations do creep into the group from time to time. Benjamin Franklin once spoke to this by stating, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

A corollary to this insight would be: "Those who would give up temporary Rationality, to purchase a little temporary Liberty, deserve neither Rationality nor Liberty."

Edit: Safety equated to Rationality.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#195
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming it's necessary to shoot at all, aiming to kill is even more rarely the right thing to do.

I'm by no means an expert gun-handler, but the only constant instruction every time I go to a range is "Don't point the gun at anything you are not ok with completely destroying". I understand police should be better trained, and ideally they must shoot to stop vs shoot to kill.

> ideally they must shoot to stop vs shoot to kill

Would you clarify what you understand as the practical, effective difference between the two?

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#196
post #153

Here are the most recent videos in the playlist linked in that post. Parts one and two of a 'confrontation' with Officer Hans Chapman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. I wonder how similar the scenario describ…

> Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73 These guys are a couple of attention seeking jerks.

I recall a detailed blog post of some guy who claim he was arrested for trying to "help" while a cop was managing a scene outside a bar. I wish I could find the link. Some people can't help but try to inject themselves into a commotion (especially when they've had a few), and can't grasp that they just become another variable for the police to worry about. This particular guy then got belligerent when asked to simply leave and go about his business.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#197
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh really... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per... I bet you will find a correlation between the rankings on this list and those of police brutality. That's the price paid for right to bear arms.

Yes, really. The presence of vast numbers of firearms in the country isn't the relevant statistic, it's the frequency with which police face situations requiring the use of their firearm. The latter barely happens. Are US police at a relatively much higher risk of encountering an armed suspect than police in countries with less firearms? Hell yes! Is that rate of encounters "high". Nope.

It's not about whether it is "high". When you multiply the probability of the suspect shooting you by the cost of getting shot, the cost of acting nice all the time is high.

Therefore, according to the statement you yourself agreed with, that cost is "relatively much higher" in the USA.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#198
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely confused about this morality. Why is it more correct that the officers "went home to their families" than that this innocent guy died in front of his? I mean, I can understand arguing that sometimes protective violence is necessary and accepting that tragedies happen. But you're literally taking a side here and saying that police lives are more important than ours. Why?

I wasn't trying to take sides. One set of people were doing their jobs, another person was doing something without thinking about consequences. I don;t hold this opinion in general, for example when someone videotapes police in a city street. Several people were pissed off about privacy violations when Google glass was becoming popular. I'm trying to apply the same principle here. Yes, ideally the guy shouldn't have…

>>>I wasn't trying to take sides

hmmm

>> I'm supporting the cops doing their jobs over the person doing something without full knowledge of the situation

Sure sounds like you are taking side....

I see this often when people excuse police abuse and over reach. They often claim they "dont want to take sides" or "dont want to defend their actions" but then proceed to defend the actions and/or take the side of the cops.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they've been wrong (and liars) before. We'd be stupid to keep trusting them.

Accusers also have been wrong (and liars) before. We'd be stupid to trust the claims of any one side without looking at the other.

Accusers already face an uphill battle to be heard, and then when they are, it's usually by another cop. Let's not pretend like this is an equitable situation from the get-go.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#200
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to take sides. One set of people were doing their jobs, another person was doing something without thinking about consequences. I don;t hold this opinion in general, for example when someone videotapes police in a city street. Several people were pissed off about privacy violations when Google glass was becoming popular. I'm trying to apply the same principle here. Yes, ideally the guy shouldn't have…

>>>I wasn't trying to take sides hmmm >> I'm supporting the cops doing their jobs over the person doing something without full knowledge of the situation Sure sounds like you are taking side.... I see this often when people excuse police abuse and over reach. They often claim they "dont want to take sides" or "dont want to defend their actions" but then proceed to defend the actions and/or take the side of the cops.

You forgot this part :)

>>> but if I have to take sides

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