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CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

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Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#151

Post by praneshp »

bonzini wrote: post #69
praneshp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely yes, in this case. I'd prefer the officers went home to their families. If you want to go around pointing your phone at everything, you need to stop and think about the consequences.

Assuming it's necessary to shoot at all, aiming to kill is even more rarely the right thing to do.

I'm by no means an expert gun-handler, but the only constant instruction every time I go to a range is "Don't point the gun at anything you are not ok with completely destroying".

I understand police should be better trained, and ideally they must shoot to stop vs shoot to kill.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#152

Post by swsieber »

bougiefever wrote: post #68
swsieber wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it probably looked like a gun from a distance. The police were in the neighborhood confronting somebody with a machine gun - not smart to take an action that looks like pointing a gun in a type of situation where one side has decided they need machine guns . It's not to excuse the behavior of the police..., but if you're pointing something at the police from across the street, it's hard to see the profile…

I think it's fair, if you're going to use deadly force, to first find out with a much, much greater degree of certainty, that there actually is a weapon, and if so that they actually are in danger. Too many cowardly and scared police shooting at shadows and noises. "It's not to excuse the behavior of the police.." And yes, your comment is excusing the behavior of the police. Just saying that you didn't just excuse th…

I tried to have it more along the lines of:

"you're stupid if you expect to go to a really shady part of town and not get mugged. If you get mugged, technically, it's not your fault, but you should have seen it coming."

And that's what I think about this guy getting shot. It was less about the police being justified, and more about that person not thinking about the surroundings.

Edit: FWIW I do think the policeman was overzealous.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#153

Post by adam12 »

JshWright wrote: post #79

Here are the most recent videos in the playlist linked in that post. Parts one and two of a 'confrontation' with Officer Hans Chapman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. I wonder how similar the scenario describ…

> Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety.

yep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73

These guys are a couple of attention seeking jerks.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#154

Post by stinkytaco »

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #134
stinkytaco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely think you should be able to record the police. But following them around is potentially unsafe for everyone involved. It's also a good way to harass good people out of the profession (the worse a job is, the more you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill it). In addition, it absolutely can be a misdemeanor to harass people, government employee or not. No one deserves to be insulted. The problem…

How is following police unsafe for everyone involved?

Because police engage in dangerous situations by their very nature. Following them around will likely put followers in unsafe situations as well. Following them and engaging in antagonistic dialog will detract from their ability to do their job. Imagine trying to asses an area before entering a building to deal with a domestic (likely one of the most dangerous things an officer deals with on a regular basis) when someone is antagonizing you.

Filming should be legal. If there is an interaction occurring, police should have the expectation of being filmed. They should be required to wear body cameras. They should be accountable. But what this guy was doing seems to slip over the line into obstruction.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#155

Post by joshuamorton »

athenot wrote: post #148
kordless wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why shouldn't they? This is a leading question, which is to say it's not a question that can be answered in a rational way. If one desires removal of choice in the conversation, they may answer it irrationally. > Look at the case of the murder of Laquan McDonald in Chicago. The use of a separate case of an individual having choice removed, or individuals in a group removing choice for an individual, applied to…

Even if that behavior is questionable, there is at least merit in raising the argument of parity. If it is unreasonable for this man to behave like that, then why is it reasonable for men vested with the authority to enforce the law for the peace of society? If we can succeed in proving that this man's behavior is contradictory with what we want for society, then it should follow that the same applies to the police f…

You answer your own question: society vests them with the authority.

As a similar thought: why do we only allow police to give citations for crimes, instead of allowing anyone to cite anyone for a crime?

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#156

Post by mikeash »

ithought wrote: post #107
lohengramm wrote: post #81

Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground". I am sure police officers can be jerks or even completely criminals, but this guy really seems to be crossing the line of common sense. Source: the YT channel himse…

And why shouldn't they? Police departments and city officials across the US routinely lie, obsfucate and remove any sense of accountability for police officers who commit crimes or make mistakes. Look at the case of the murder of Laquan McDonald in Chicago. The lying and stonewalling is a common occurrence. It's not just a few bad apples, it's a bad system that promotes escalation and grants power without accountabil…

Being annoying or insulting isn't a crime, but there are lots of other things that are crimes. If you want to hold the system accountable, don't give them any excuse to take you down. If you're going around filming cops, there may not be any legal requirement to be polite and respectful, but you had better be polite and respectful if you want to be effective.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#157

Post by ajross »

jtuente wrote: post #102
ajross wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely confused about this morality. Why is it more correct that the officers "went home to their families" than that this innocent guy died in front of his? I mean, I can understand arguing that sometimes protective violence is necessary and accepting that tragedies happen. But you're literally taking a side here and saying that police lives are more important than ours. Why?

It's not a rationalization that police lives are more important, but rather about the stupidity of holding up a phone in such a way towards the police engaged in a dangerous situation that it appears as though you are acting aggressively towards them. The officers only have a limited time to assess the threat of any given person before more lives are lost due to an unknown danger. It's a high stress situation and wro…

So... the police made a mistake, but that's OK. The guy made a mistake, but he died and that's warranted (your word!).

It's the asymmetry of this morality that horrifies me. I can understand people who think this is a terrible mistake but still sympathize with the officers and don't want to see them punished. But you guys... yikes.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#158

Post by sgift »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #25
adamnemecek wrote: post #11

Why are the us cops such raging douche nozzles? After every interaction I've had with a cop in the us, I left hoping they get shot soon. I've never seen cops in other countries be like this.

US police receive large amounts of hand down military equipment and are routinely armed. Some US citizens are routinely armed, so the potential for lethal harm is much greater in any scenario. US domestic policy has encouraged the police to be at war (vs crime, drugs etc). US domestic policy has encouraged a criminalization of large amounts of petty stuff (truancy / three strikes policies) which encourages this. This…

> Almost any civilian action (e.g. filming police / protests) encourages the 'us vs them' attitude and encourages police to close ranks.

IMO, if you are not able to shrug off people exercising their rights even if it bothers you you are unfit of being a police officer. Or any civil servant for that matter.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#159

Post by bonzini »

Kalium wrote: post #80
bonzini wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming it's necessary to shoot at all, aiming to kill is even more rarely the right thing to do.

In real life, there is only "do not shoot the firearm" and "shoot the firearm with the intent to kill". There is no practical aiming to disable or similar with a lethal firearm. There's no difference between the two, and no distinction to be drawn.

Not at all. In civilized countries, police are specifically trained to stop, not to kill. Sometimes one may imply the other, but not necessarily.

Re: CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

#160

Post by gwright »

kordless wrote: post #136
ithought wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why shouldn't they? Police departments and city officials across the US routinely lie, obsfucate and remove any sense of accountability for police officers who commit crimes or make mistakes. Look at the case of the murder of Laquan McDonald in Chicago. The lying and stonewalling is a common occurrence. It's not just a few bad apples, it's a bad system that promotes escalation and grants power without accountabil…

> And why shouldn't they? This is a leading question, which is to say it's not a question that can be answered in a rational way. If one desires removal of choice in the conversation, they may answer it irrationally. > Look at the case of the murder of Laquan McDonald in Chicago. The use of a separate case of an individual having choice removed, or individuals in a group removing choice for an individual, applied to…

Seems like 'provocative' and 'provocateur' are reasonable descriptions of this behavior and this person.
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