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Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

cs229.stanford.edu

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Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#41

Post by krapp »

lacampbell wrote: post #22
stil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bcherny is saying that karma's primary function is content curation. sure, you might like a few downvoted submissions from time to time, but for most content karma scores will be saving you time sifting through a sea of content. removing content by hand requires an active and vigilant moderation team, user votes help mitigate that burden. Also, the power to 'delete' is most likely a slippery slope...

I see a lot of great content here greyed out. Including some of my own! At the end of the day, I'm not happy to follow the collective judgment of other users.

The greying out of downvoted comments seems to me to be a separate issue to karma - and particularly egregious given that (thanks to pg) there are no standards at all for voting.

It would be nice if HN would allow sorting of threads by various filters, such as time of last reply, and/or decide whether or not low-sorted comments get greyed out.

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#42

Post by jononor »

a1studmuffin wrote: post #27
lacampbell wrote: post #15

I think karma mechanisms have had a net negative effect on online discussion. I don't want to have preconceived notion on how I should feel about a post - I want to make my own decisions. There's no escaping it now though, which is sad.

I'd love to see an automated karma system that scored posts on correct grammar, spelling and readability. I guess that would discourage non-native speakers of a language from participating though.

Better to have feedback to the writer in the editor, so they are given a chance to learn and improve!

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#43

Post by jononor »

minimaxir wrote: post #13
derefr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in aggregate they're meaningless internet points. As a speaker/writer, though, you can use the score on an individual comment you've made, as a rough approximation of how well it managed to communicate its intent: if a comment you've made scores really highly, it can do well to stare at it and attempt to figure out what you did that made it work for people.

Saying that a 20pt comment is better than a 5pt comment because solely of its intrinsic quality is confirmation bias. There are many factors which help determine the score a comment receives, some of which are noted in the paper (time-of-day comment was made, time comment was made relative to the time original post was submitted, the score of the parent, etc.) For example, this comment made today, which is literally…

A point score normalized according to the total number of points in the thread could at least make it possible to compensate for the 'general popularity' variation of different articles.

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#44

Post by sametmax »

lacampbell wrote: post #22
stil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bcherny is saying that karma's primary function is content curation. sure, you might like a few downvoted submissions from time to time, but for most content karma scores will be saving you time sifting through a sea of content. removing content by hand requires an active and vigilant moderation team, user votes help mitigate that burden. Also, the power to 'delete' is most likely a slippery slope...

I see a lot of great content here greyed out. Including some of my own! At the end of the day, I'm not happy to follow the collective judgment of other users.

But I'm very glad they grey out comments, including some of your own. So what do we do now ?

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#45

Post by skocznymroczny »

a1studmuffin wrote: post #27
lacampbell wrote: post #15

I think karma mechanisms have had a net negative effect on online discussion. I don't want to have preconceived notion on how I should feel about a post - I want to make my own decisions. There's no escaping it now though, which is sad.

I'd love to see an automated karma system that scored posts on correct grammar, spelling and readability. I guess that would discourage non-native speakers of a language from participating though.

you mean automated censorship system.

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#46

Post by _qwerty_ »

lacampbell wrote: post #22
stil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bcherny is saying that karma's primary function is content curation. sure, you might like a few downvoted submissions from time to time, but for most content karma scores will be saving you time sifting through a sea of content. removing content by hand requires an active and vigilant moderation team, user votes help mitigate that burden. Also, the power to 'delete' is most likely a slippery slope...

I see a lot of great content here greyed out. Including some of my own! At the end of the day, I'm not happy to follow the collective judgment of other users.

The logical solution isn't to ignore or remove the karma system, but to use it better.

For example, with sufficient data to analyse, it shouldn't be tremendously difficult to find relationships between users who tend to agree or disagree, and provide each user with a customised view, taking these preferences into account.

(Of course, slashdot took a slant at making it cleverer - by allowing upvoting for different reasons - e.g. funny vs. insightful.)

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#47

Post by igk »

lacampbell wrote: post #15

I think karma mechanisms have had a net negative effect on online discussion. I don't want to have preconceived notion on how I should feel about a post - I want to make my own decisions. There's no escaping it now though, which is sad.

I never look at the karma (consciously at least). However, I like the filtering effect that it has for the most part, if coupled with good moderation (r/askscience,r/askhistorians)

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#48

Post by GrinningFool »

derefr wrote: post #16
minimaxir wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that a 20pt comment is better than a 5pt comment because solely of its intrinsic quality is confirmation bias. There are many factors which help determine the score a comment receives, some of which are noted in the paper (time-of-day comment was made, time comment was made relative to the time original post was submitted, the score of the parent, etc.) For example, this comment made today, which is literally…

Oh, sure, a factor of 1-10x is noise. But if you normally write comments that earn 1-5 points, and then one comment earns 300pts, there might be something to the way you wrote it. Or might not. It might just be that you wrote the rebuttal everyone wanted to the stupid comment in a very popular thread. But you should try to figure that out, because if—after eliminating sources of error—you're still left with an anomal…

Hedging words that show awareness of the difference between opinion and fact in particular seem [1] to be pretty key here.

I think[2] analysing which comments get up voted can be very helpful if you're doing so when looking at writing style. but when approached with an eye towards content, it seems[3] like it would lead to the echo chamber effect that often gets raised as an issue.

[1] there goes one of those hedging words now

[2] oops, there's another.

[3] and a third. It would be interesting to see the ratio of filler/hedging/weasel words to votes in HN vs elsewhere​.

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#49

Post by LambdaComplex »

lacampbell wrote: post #15

I think karma mechanisms have had a net negative effect on online discussion. I don't want to have preconceived notion on how I should feel about a post - I want to make my own decisions. There's no escaping it now though, which is sad.

Well, there's always 4chan.

Re: Hacking the Hivemind: Predicting Comment Karma on Internet Forums (2014) [pdf]

#50

Post by lacampbell »

sametmax wrote: post #44
lacampbell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of great content here greyed out. Including some of my own! At the end of the day, I'm not happy to follow the collective judgment of other users.

But I'm very glad they grey out comments, including some of your own. So what do we do now ?

There's already a mechanism in HN for not seeing comments you don't want to see. You can collapse them.
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