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Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

postandcourier.com

21–30 of 92 posts

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's how amazon is heating their new buildings in Seattle: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/09/17/amazo...

Bang! You're no longer dead! (maybe) That's exactly what I mean though you posted it with a click-baity lead-in.

Click baity how?

And that comment is valuable because it shows that it's feasible to do with data center water, which is much less hot than the industrial sources you mentioned.

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#22
post #3

Water has an exceptionally high heat capacity, I get it. But using drinking water to cool our servers (in the interest of seeing the very best ads) seems like an exceptionally short-sighted choice for us to make. If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.

And drawing water from an aquifer, when we don't even know how fast it's being replenished, seems like a particularly bad idea -- surprisingly so from a company whose headquarters is in California.

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#23

How exactly is the amount of a public resource consumed by a private company a "trade secret"? What utter nonsense. Someone in SC should file a FOIA request on principle. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t30c004.php

see section 30-4-40(A)1

"Trade secrets, which are defined as unpatented, secret, commercially valuable plans, appliances, formulas, or processes, which are used for the making, preparing, compounding, treating, or processing of articles or materials which are trade commodities obtained from a person and which are generally recognized as confidential and work products, in whole or in part collected or produced for sale or resale, and paid subscriber information. Trade secrets also include, for those public bodies who market services or products in competition with others, feasibility, planning, and marketing studies, marine terminal service and nontariff agreements, and evaluations and other materials which contain references to potential customers, competitive information, or evaluation."

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#25
post #20
post #3

Water has an exceptionally high heat capacity, I get it. But using drinking water to cool our servers (in the interest of seeing the very best ads) seems like an exceptionally short-sighted choice for us to make. If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.

I mean, it's not like the water is being destroyed, or even rendered undrinkable, it's just being warmed...

Right, but

> The Google aquifer permit application states it will reuse water before eventually discharging it to the sewer system, but the company did not provide details when asked by The Post and Courier.

And 2 paragraphs down

> Groundwater can be returned to the aquifer after use, but some is lost to evaporation and the operation is costly, according to industry sources. There are other alternatives. The National Security Agency cools its Fort Meade, Maryland data center with treated wastewater, touted as an environmental boon and cost savings compared to tap water or aquifer pumping.

So basically Google is going to draw aquifer water, probably reuse it and potentially just flush the water into the the sewer system.

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#27
post #24

I think the biggest question here is how can a public municipality sign an NDA written by a private corporation?

Yeah, the proper response here is:

  NO U
Especially when the entity requesting the valuable resource (water they don't yet have permission to use), is the one prompting for the NDA.

Sorry, private corporation. Take your NDA elsewhere, and go swat at your lowly job applicants with it, as they grovel for permission to waste their youth away in your flourescent dungeons and air conditioned nightmares.

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#28
post #3

Water has an exceptionally high heat capacity, I get it. But using drinking water to cool our servers (in the interest of seeing the very best ads) seems like an exceptionally short-sighted choice for us to make. If there is a less worthwhile thing for us to be doing with potable water, I can't think of it.

Economics beats morality. Making it about morality is counter-productive.

Water is a resource with a price, just like land or gasoline.

If Google had a cheaper way to cool their servers, they would.

If we have plenty of cheap water then we should use it to cool the server or for watering lawns or whatever.

If the price of water is too low, then we should raise the price of water so that it's cheaper for Google to use a different way of cooling.

If you make it about Google and cooling servers (and not about the price of water) then you might win a battle but you'll still lose the war because Google is only one of many entities that will eventually deplete water resources if they are not priced properly.

Re: Google's controversial groundwater withdrawal sparks question

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They dump it because it's not cool anymore and nobody is wanting to buy hot water from them at a cost that makes it worth their while. If they had the capability to cool the water fast enough then they'd use a closed loop cooling system and wouldn't need to pump fresh, cool groundwater.

Well, duh. If I had to pay nothing for water, I would also just run the tap through a radiator all day and save on the AC electricity. But then I also have a conscience and realize what a gigantic waste that is, so I don't.

This is basically how we cool our house in Montana during the summers. Cold water is pumped up one well and hot water is returned down another well. It uses much less electricity than a conventional AC system.
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