The Deep Space of Digital Reading • Hacker News Board

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#21

Post by brudgers » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

hoodwink wrote: post #17

yellow_postit wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inability to loan a book and to curate a library are the biggest issues which brought me back to physical books after 3 years of being a devoted eReader. My Kindle gathers dust until a trip comes up and I read few things of meaningful value on it because of the aforementioned issues. I do think much of this could be addressed by software and legal/copyright, lending & reselling being the most straightforward albe…

Have you seen Kindle MatchBook? https://www.amazon.com/gp/digital/ep-landing-page Or Shelfie? http://www.shelfie.com/

Shelfie has been acquired by Rakuten Kobo

April 05, 2017 – Rakuten Kobo Inc., one of the world’s most innovative eReading companies, today announced it has acquired Shelfie, a service that was built to enable customers to get free or discounted eBook versions of books in their print libraries, and get recommendations based on print books they already own. The deal includes technology assets, IP, and the infrastructure on which the ecosystem runs; it also includes hiring Shelfie’s skilled team, which specializes in the application of big data and machine learning for book discovery.

Shelfie ceased operations this January. Kobo worked with Shelfie to offer its customers the opportunity to transfer their eBook libraries to Kobo’s platform, ensuring they would continue to have access to their digital books. Over the coming months, Kobo will work to integrate the Shelfie platform into its Android and iOS apps, enabling readers to add their print libraries to their reading history to generate ever more tailored eBook recommendations, as well as the option to get digital versions of print titles they already own.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#22

Post by the_af » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

> the inability to display the books you've read and the books you want to read somewhere in your home or office. You can tell so much about a person by their library.

Plus books are aesthetically pleasing and bookcases are among the most interesting pieces of furniture people can have in their houses. If you invite me to your house, you can be sure I'll peruse your bookshelves, and ask you about your various books, and we'll have an interesting conversation. If we're friends, I'll borrow one of your books or remember to lend you one of mine next time we see each other.

With e-readers it's not the same. I won't ask you for your kindle, and it's definitely not an interesting piece of furniture.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#23

Post by david-given » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 9:16 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #5

There is a good point in this article about the perception of effort and how that affects comprehension, rather than the medium. I've met and worked with many people who think that just because it is being read through a computer that they don't have to read it carefully. As a so-called 'digital native' with an unapologetic love for text, I find it extremely frustrating that people don't take online text seriously. S…

> Some people even like to speed-read, racing through text faster than they can recall the pronunciation of the words.

That's totally normal! I don't think I know anybody who doesn't read faster than they can talk.

I agree with you about the problems involved speed reading, but... what you're describing here isn't speed reading --- it's just reading quickly. Speed reading's an entirely different discipline (and which is known not to work well).

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#24

Post by the_af » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

danidiaz wrote: post #10

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

> The only shortcoming of e-reading, in my opinion, is the inability to display the books you've read and the books you want to read somewhere in your home or office. An secondary advantage of pysical books is that they're much more beatiful to destroy. Burning books make a striking image, and not only because the ominous historical connotations. Nobody would be bothered by an ereader melting in a fire or being crush…

Burning books can indeed be beautiful. I've destroyed badly written police novels this way, and once you overcome the nagging notion that burning books is naughty, it's actually very fun.

I'd never purify by the flame any book that didn't really deserve it on purely literary grounds; it must be really badly written trash. I think anything by Dan Brown would burn up nicely.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#25

Post by gumby » Sat, Apr 22, 2017, 11:53 PM UTC

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

I am envious.

I find it hard to read on a kindle or iPad much as I'd like the convenience.

One reason is that they are so much slower -- you can go from page to page in a flick of an eye or a quick page turn. Another is that it couples the somatic memory, making it easier to flip back to an earlier place (I often read in a random-access fashion, especially as I proceed through a book. The paper typography is still so much better in almost every case. And of course there's the reflected vs transmitted light issue.

I really don't care what other people think about my books and have most of them hidden away in the part of the house where guests are not invited.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#26

Post by axlprose » Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 1:01 AM UTC

david-given wrote: post #23

nxc18 wrote: post #5

There is a good point in this article about the perception of effort and how that affects comprehension, rather than the medium. I've met and worked with many people who think that just because it is being read through a computer that they don't have to read it carefully. As a so-called 'digital native' with an unapologetic love for text, I find it extremely frustrating that people don't take online text seriously. S…

> Some people even like to speed-read, racing through text faster than they can recall the pronunciation of the words. That's totally normal! I don't think I know anybody who doesn't read faster than they can talk. I agree with you about the problems involved speed reading, but... what you're describing here isn't speed reading --- it's just reading quickly. Speed reading's an entirely different discipline (and which…

> and which is known not to work well

This is commonly said about speed reading, but it seems to me like a bit of a misunderstanding about what speed reading even is. Speed reading isn't about trying to retain the same level of comprehension on a single pass through a text as a normal speed pass through it. It's nothing more than an optimized skimming technique if you only take one or two passes through a text. But the idea is to leverage the time saved through 'speed reading', by putting that extra time into additional passes later on, thus making it more of an efficient spaced repetition[0] system than a reading technique. The idea being that you build your comprehension up with each pass, until you surpass the comprehension you would've had of it if you only took one normal speed pass through it, and in the end still use up about the same amount of time or less as a normal reading.

Continuing with the spaced repetition idea, speed reading also helps that along more than normal reading by making the things you've read more difficult to recall, which is good if you plan to review them again later to strengthen the memories. The book "Make It Stick"[1] has a pretty good overview of different scientifically proven learning techniques that are pretty interesting, and a lot of them overlap with the effects of speed reading + multiple passes.

Personally, since I'm dyslexic, I prefer applying this approach to audiobooks and listening to them at 3-4x speed, then re-listening to ones I liked later, all while taking notes as I go. And I have to say, that works out for me pretty well. My biggest issue is keeping track of which book I learned what from.

[0] https://www.gwern.net/Spaced%20repetition

[1] http://makeitstick.net

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#27

Post by appendix » Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

Nassim Taleb must not have met many librarians...we debate the physicality and other differences very regularly!

Joking aside, the "print or ebook" debate is a false dichotomy...both are here to stay. Both also have significant shortcomings. Thankfully, it's okay for feelings about books to be irrational.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#28

Post by appendix » Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

ashark wrote: post #7

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

> The only shortcoming of e-reading, in my opinion, is the inability to display the books you've read and the books you want to read somewhere in your home or office. You can tell so much about a person by their library. I've been testing some solutions to this problem. 1. Can't re-sell, 2. tend to be significantly more expensive to begin with (no used market), 3. annotations, footnotes and such tend to be much worse…

Spot on.

Print is better, in many ways.

So are ebooks, but just in different ways. It's a good thing we have the technology to make both.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#29

Post by WalterBright » Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 1:41 AM UTC

ashark wrote: post #7

hoodwink wrote: post #4

Ever since I lost my physical library of books to a fire, I've been an e-reader zealot. There are so many advantages: instantly start reading virtually book you want, effortlessly take digital highlights and annotations, carry a whole library in your pocket while you travel, read at night while your partner is asleep... I could go on. As an e-reader evangelist, I've encountered all kinds of resistance. In fact, it's…

> The only shortcoming of e-reading, in my opinion, is the inability to display the books you've read and the books you want to read somewhere in your home or office. You can tell so much about a person by their library. I've been testing some solutions to this problem. 1. Can't re-sell, 2. tend to be significantly more expensive to begin with (no used market), 3. annotations, footnotes and such tend to be much worse…

> an index

Fiction books never have indices.

> They're worse in just about every other way

An awful lot of books go in the trash simply because it is uneconomic to store them, ship them, or even sell them. If your interests run to more than a few hundred books, this becomes the crushing reality.

Re: The Deep Space of Digital Reading

#30

Post by WalterBright » Sun, Apr 23, 2017, 1:43 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #20

a3n wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Can't re-sell, 2. tend to be significantly more expensive to begin with (no used market) Huge loss to society. We've lost a lot of things that we loved over the millenia, and we're still around. But I regret the eventual extinction of used (and new) bookstores. So many hours, sniffing those books and listening to the bell ring when the door opens ... My coffee cup is sitting on a purpose-built book shelf housing…

When I moved in 2006, I gave away my set of Encyclopedia Britannica to a neighbor. 1957 edition with the dedicated bookcase purchased at a yard sale for $15 in 1989, just because 'Wow' and its own bookcase and some things don't go out of date. There's no Kindle edition of the '57 Britannica and if there was, it would not be $15 to me and free to my neighbor. These days, my culled books go to a local charity's thrift…

They won't take encyclopedias. I've tried. (I have two sets.)