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The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#141

Post by chrisseaton »

mrfusion wrote: post #137

I've always wondered why we don't combine wind and solar on the same land. The shadows from the turbines would be negligible and you could reuse the same electrical hookups and wiring. In fact you could raise mushrooms under the solar panels and get triple use of the land.

I don't know about the US but here in the UK the windiest places are often not the sunniest. High, windy ground often means mountains pushing up air and moisture and creating clouds and things, and hilly, angled ground means panels may not be able to face the sun for much of the time.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#142

Post by CydeWeys »

bfstein wrote: post #140
mrfusion wrote: post #137

I've always wondered why we don't combine wind and solar on the same land. The shadows from the turbines would be negligible and you could reuse the same electrical hookups and wiring. In fact you could raise mushrooms under the solar panels and get triple use of the land.

Uninformed speculation: maybe because the places where it's windy are not necessarily the places where it's sunny (and vice versa).

That's definitely part of it, but as solar panel prices continue to fall I suspect that the marginal cost of adding on solar panels to a wind installation will be low enough to justify it even in sub-optimal sunlight conditions. You've already got the land and the power transmission infrastructure taken care of, so it's just the additional cost of the panels. It could start making sense.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#143

Post by CydeWeys »

maxerickson wrote: post #122
tormeh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you reach that conclusion? Those things scream "advanced material tech" to me. Almost as much as space rockets.

The towers are just lots and lots of steel. A lot of them are made in facilities that were built to make railcars (including big tank cars).

> The towers are just lots and lots of steel.

And a lot of engineering is involved to optimize that design, to build the towers as strong as is necessary to survive high wind loads while using as little material as possible so as to minimize cost. You're trivializing something that has a lot of thought put into it just because you don't really understand it well. I can guarantee you that more thought, simulation, and calculation goes into the design of windmill towers than goes into the average software project.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#144

Post by vkou »

jnordwick wrote: post #77
vincentperes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

environmental impact should be taken into consideration, it's most probably a good move for future generation

Of course, but that it takes more people is a net negative. I didn't say there aren't any positives to wind power. I think it is a balanced part of an alternative energy solution. That is takes so many people resources is a worry though.

It's not if you're a politician. "Fewer jobs! More efficiency!" is a surefire way to not get elected.

Your constituents have to eat.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#145

Post by AReallyGoodName »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #116
foofoo55 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find them an eyesore, audibly irritating[1], and the documented bird deaths are awful[2]. But, I'll take them over coal any day. [1] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... [2] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-many-birds-do-w...

Meh about [2] - house cats and glass&steel skyscrapers kill an awful lot more birds than that. There is absolutely no outcry against either; that's how we know the outrage against windmills killing birds is planted and artificially kept alive.

Transport too. I suspect that's the biggest bird killer.

Which really just goes to show how good wind is. The worst complaints aren't actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#146

Post by philipkglass »

mrfusion wrote: post #137

I've always wondered why we don't combine wind and solar on the same land. The shadows from the turbines would be negligible and you could reuse the same electrical hookups and wiring. In fact you could raise mushrooms under the solar panels and get triple use of the land.

It's happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/26/renewabl...

Building the solar farm on the same location as the windfarm meant 20% could be saved from the construction costs of the solar farm, said Ivor Frischknecht, the chief executive of Arena.

Arena recently commissioned an investigation into the costs and benefits of hybrid solar and windfarms.

It found that besides huge cost savings – achieved mostly because the grid connection was able to be shared by the two generators – the two energy sources were often complementary, producing peak outputs at different times of both the day and year. That meant they combined to create a more reliable energy source.

“Co-location provides more continuous energy generation as windfarms tend to generate more energy overnight whilst solar only generates during the day,” Frischknecht said. “Gullen windfarm generates more power in winter and the new solar farm will generate more in summer.”

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#147

Post by sgustard »

chasing wrote: post #19
tinco wrote: post #17

The article does not respond to the claim of the president that windmills kill birds. Do they really in a significant way? Is it worthy of being called an environmental disaster?

http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-... I didn't realize that was such a big issue. Over time, humanity will figure out ways of making wind turbines less of a danger to birds. In the mean time, I would assume that wind power still remains a net positive for the overall environment versus coal, etc.

Just turn the problem around and replace large turbines with mini-turbines attached to the birds themselves. As they fly they charge, um, small batteries that they carry around and then periodically return to dropoff stations. OK I'm still working out some of the kinks.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#148

Post by maxerickson »

CydeWeys wrote: post #143
maxerickson wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The towers are just lots and lots of steel. A lot of them are made in facilities that were built to make railcars (including big tank cars).

> The towers are just lots and lots of steel. And a lot of engineering is involved to optimize that design, to build the towers as strong as is necessary to survive high wind loads while using as little material as possible so as to minimize cost. You're trivializing something that has a lot of thought put into it just because you don't really understand it well. I can guarantee you that more thought, simulation, and…

And from a material standpoint they are still just lots and lots of steel.

If it helps, I'm not a software engineer and have an unused degree in mechanical engineering.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#149

Post by theghostofjr »

tinco wrote: post #17

The article does not respond to the claim of the president that windmills kill birds. Do they really in a significant way? Is it worthy of being called an environmental disaster?

Of course, Trump has an offshore wind array in his view from his hold course in Aberdeen. So he may have ulterior motives than bird preservation here.
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