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The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#131

Post by joelwilliamson »

kumarski wrote: post #63

Vaclav Smil has written extensively on the embodied chemistry of Wind-turbines, I figure it's worth sharing here because it seems relevant to the conversation. Chemical, petroleum, and nuclear engineers are scarce in Silicon Valley..... "Wind turbines are the most visible symbols of the quest for renewable electricity generation. And yet, although they exploit the wind, which is as free and as green as energy can be,…

If you write the required resources as absolute numbers, of course it looks like a huge investment. If it was rephrased as percentages of global production over 15 years, the numbers look much more manageable.

2% of global steel production 1% of global coal production 0.3% of global oil production

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#132

Post by 15charlimitdumb »

notadoc wrote: post #94

I recall some years ago T Boone Pickens had a plan for a large scale wind project throughout the midwest, but it fell through for various reasons. At what point will solar efficient enough to lay out massive solar grids in Texas, Arizona, and SE California?

in terms of efficiency not for the foreseeable future. hydrocarbons are essentially condensed solar power. when will it become more economically efficient to move and assemble all the materials for a solar panel vs extracting hydrocarbon stored energy (sapiens living in poverty can't care about the environment of tomorrow if they are struggling to thrive today, admittedly this is my global view)

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#133

Post by okreallywtf »

reducesuffering wrote: post #104
chris_va wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the beauty of capitalism. You can just let it run its course and not worry about it. If something is less efficient, it will not be able to compete in the market for very long.

Yes, but in the U.S. case we don't have theoretical free markets like that. There's too complex a network of government subsidies, unequal taxes, and corporate lobbying putting many things on the market that would not survive normally. I'm not saying this is inherently bad, just that we shouldn't think we can just let things run its course and the less efficient things will be weeded out.

I would argue that if human beings and their well-being is important, a theoretical fee market system would not be ideal. Thats fine if you are willing to suffer as a result and the system is more important than you (or others) but because that will generally not be true we have to kludge it together and make the market as free as we generally can with exceptions to not ruin too many lives. Once you kludge it here and there you can start introducing kludges just for your own gain.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#134

Post by [deleted] »

reducesuffering wrote: post #104
chris_va wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the beauty of capitalism. You can just let it run its course and not worry about it. If something is less efficient, it will not be able to compete in the market for very long.

Yes, but in the U.S. case we don't have theoretical free markets like that. There's too complex a network of government subsidies, unequal taxes, and corporate lobbying putting many things on the market that would not survive normally. I'm not saying this is inherently bad, just that we shouldn't think we can just let things run its course and the less efficient things will be weeded out.

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#135

Post by labster »

ethbro wrote: post #114
labster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So open pit uranium mines are that much better than ripping the tops off of mountains for coal?

You're forgetting the "It's different when it happens in Africa / India / China / South America" caveat to most arguments.

I'd normally agree with you, but the top Uranium producers are Canada, Kazakhstan, and Australia. Uranium mining is a first (and second) world problem.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#136

Post by mrfusion »

I still think kite based systems have a ton of potential.

I've also designed a super low cost wind power system anyone can just stick in their yard. Basically a flat wide pole you stick in the ground that the wind blows up and down. (Think wind blowing across a grassy field). I need help with engineering to make any more progress though.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#137

Post by mrfusion »

I've always wondered why we don't combine wind and solar on the same land. The shadows from the turbines would be negligible and you could reuse the same electrical hookups and wiring.

In fact you could raise mushrooms under the solar panels and get triple use of the land.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#138

Post by toomuchtodo »

maxerickson wrote: post #127
toomuchtodo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd assume this is the case, as birds already use the earth's magnetic field for navigation and wind turbines generate a significant magnetic field.

Detecting a small field while flying at 10-15 meters / second (30 miles per hour) might not be possible with whatever they use to detect the wider field.

Bookmarked to research.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#139

Post by enraged_camel »

foofoo55 wrote: post #101
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more. They popped up as I was growing up - littering the coastline and countryside. They can be seen from great distances and serve to make the place seem an awful lot smaller. I for one can't wait until we develop a way to live without them - the only condolence is that they move us away from the coal and gas industries. I do hope that solar leaves them in its wake and we can be done with the mon…

I also find them an eyesore, audibly irritating[1], and the documented bird deaths are awful[2]. But, I'll take them over coal any day. [1] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... [2] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-many-birds-do-w...

How many birds do coal plants poison and kill? I bet you never thought about that simply because those deaths aren't violent and sudden.

Re: The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people

#140

Post by bfstein »

mrfusion wrote: post #137

I've always wondered why we don't combine wind and solar on the same land. The shadows from the turbines would be negligible and you could reuse the same electrical hookups and wiring. In fact you could raise mushrooms under the solar panels and get triple use of the land.

Uninformed speculation: maybe because the places where it's windy are not necessarily the places where it's sunny (and vice versa).
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