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Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

theguardian.com

11–20 of 113 posts

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#11
post #4

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

I don't think programming is science I think it's more like plumbing. You're dealing with a complicated system made out of the most simple parts. Anyone can learn how to setup or fix these systems if they get what the basic parts do. There's not really much science in non-academic computer science. We're just builders who make, fix, and break things. Edit: added do

You just described an Engineer.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

It's not a proof that anyone can program, but neither is it a proof of the opposite. You don't need to be the top 1 percentile to make CRUD apps, they chose the best because they had the first pick, not necessarily because they needed to.

I think the idea is that many people will never be able to make a stable crud app in a reasonable timeframe, no matter how hard you try to retrain them. This isn't the 1%, it's just that the majority of programmers are more proficient than the general public in some way. Sure that's hundreds of millions of people, but it's not everyone.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#13
post #5

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

Personally I'm of the opinion that a lot of programming learning difficulties come from the teachers and methodology of teaching programming. Though it's all antidotal from Going through different college courses that teach both programming and contactor/ladder logic. The programming classes had something like 40% learn rates, while the ladder logic classes everyone eventually got it. And with chances of going out to…

College doesn't really teach programming. They teach computer science. Professor largely expect you to pick up programming on your own to solve the problems given.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

It's not a proof that anyone can program, but neither is it a proof of the opposite. You don't need to be the top 1 percentile to make CRUD apps, they chose the best because they had the first pick, not necessarily because they needed to.

It's quite possible that you need to be the top 10 percentile to sling together CRUD apps. I think trying to minimize the difficulty of what we do is a little insulting. Even the dumbest software developers I've met are sharper than the average bear.

I mean, get out in the world and see what most people are like.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think programming is science I think it's more like plumbing. You're dealing with a complicated system made out of the most simple parts. Anyone can learn how to setup or fix these systems if they get what the basic parts do. There's not really much science in non-academic computer science. We're just builders who make, fix, and break things. Edit: added do

You just described an Engineer.

Probably. Most Computer Science degree holders are going to end up Engineers.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm of the opinion that a lot of programming learning difficulties come from the teachers and methodology of teaching programming. Though it's all antidotal from Going through different college courses that teach both programming and contactor/ladder logic. The programming classes had something like 40% learn rates, while the ladder logic classes everyone eventually got it. And with chances of going out to…

College doesn't really teach programming. They teach computer science. Professor largely expect you to pick up programming on your own to solve the problems given.

I dunno, maybe things have changed, but I certainly learned to code.

Sure, coding skills sharpen and evolve through experience, but coding was heavily emphasized and there was much lab work in my CS curriculum.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#17

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

I missed the IQ test part. All I read was coding aptitude test, whatever the hell that is.

Sure we're all different and maybe 95% is high but its at least 50%. One out of every two people I meet I am confident they could become proficient at programming given a solid learning environment.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

I missed the IQ test part. All I read was coding aptitude test, whatever the hell that is. Sure we're all different and maybe 95% is high but its at least 50%. One out of every two people I meet I am confident they could become proficient at programming given a solid learning environment.

A programming aptitude test is just an IQ test with another name.

>One out of every two people I meet I am confident they could become proficient at programming given a solid learning environment.

That's quite possible, even if what I say is true. People tend to mix with people on their own intellectual level. The people you talk to enough to get a good estimate of their intelligence are unlikely to be randomly selected from the population.

If you believe average people can become good programmers, this implies you could make billions converting 100 IQ people into programmers and then undercutting everyone else. I predict you will fail, unless you figure out a way to vastly deskill the art of programming.

Re: Former miners out to put Kentucky on the tech map

#20

Time and time again I keep coming back to the same conclusion - anyone who has the desire can learn to code. I would say that 95% of people have enough innate logic to write code, they just need to be taught to express it formally.

>in 2015, then watched as more than 900 applications rolled in. From this pool, they chose 11 former miners who scored highest on a coding aptitude test. Two years later, in an old Coca-Cola factory by the Big Sandy river, nine men and one woman remain They gave people an IQ test and took the top percentile of a group that, due to their interest, was already slightly selected for intellectual ability. This is not pro…

Thanks for saying this. To me, in a strange way, it's a little arrogant to think I am being generous by saying that anyone can code. It feels like I'm engaging in false humility and I am putting myself above them in the first place to confer this "honor" upon them. I'm also subtly devaluing the many other things they probably can do.

But, maybe I'm over-thinking that part. Either way, I have witnessed first hand that not everyone can code, and we have probably all seen this. I mean, it's a vague statement to begin with. Sure, you can probably show most people how to write a for-loop, but that's a far cry from them being a proficient, professional coder, which is really what's implied by the phrase "learning to code" if used for any practical purpose.

And, you can't just chalk it up to bad teaching. I've seen many people, in school and at work, who just didn't have the thinking style. In school, so many people couldn't turn the corner, then switched majors and did perfectly well. They weren't unintelligent. Coding just never clicked. And, as a tutor, I really witnessed it up-close. For some, I was able to guide them to finding the solution, giving them just enough to turn on their inner coder and help introduce them to that part of their brain.

But, for others, no matter what I did, it just didn't click. I could show them pieces at best, but they could never seem to put it all together. Felt like it was just something about the way their minds worked.

And, there are some who somehow made it through school, but struggle professionally and it shows in the quality of their code. The idea that we can make anyone "good enough" is unrealistic.

Bad code costs money and it's economically no different from any other skilled field, wherein firms that employ highly skilled resources are at an advantage over those who employ less proficient resources. And, this is not just true for Google.

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