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Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

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Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#21

Post by RandomOpinion »

steego wrote: post #7

I give coding interviews and I try to take the original concern (Questioner can't think fast enough or freezes) into account, but I can't really say with any certainty if I'm successful or not. About 10 years ago, I gave a woman a coding interview question and her hands were literally shaking. She got through it, but I felt terrible because clearly she was the type of person who gets really nervous when under that ty…

> Some people work like tortoises. They may appear slow, but the culminated effect of their very deliberate and careful decisions accumulates far better than a hare. I'm pretty sure my current process doesn't work in their favor, but I'm at a loss for better alternatives at this time.

As someone who prefers to contemplate a question carefully before answering and stutters considerably when put on the spot, kudos for you for considering taking a more inclusive and compassionate approach.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#22

Post by david-gpu »

ryandvm wrote: post #16
steego wrote: post #7

I give coding interviews and I try to take the original concern (Questioner can't think fast enough or freezes) into account, but I can't really say with any certainty if I'm successful or not. About 10 years ago, I gave a woman a coding interview question and her hands were literally shaking. She got through it, but I felt terrible because clearly she was the type of person who gets really nervous when under that ty…

I think the test that is the least stressful as well as most closely simulates the work they'll actually be doing is to give interviewees some "homework" that they should be able to knock out in a few hours before their interview. Maybe write a few API endpoints or whatever. This allows them to tackle the exercise at their own pace and do it at a level of quality that they're comfortable with. If you're concerned the…

Going to an interview is already a time-consuming affair that requires taking time off from your current job, but at least you know the interviewer is somewhat serious because they are willing to spend their own time interviewing you.

With a "homework assignment" it is possible for the interviewer to throw a much wider net, and that is why as an job hunter I would not waste my time with it.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#23

Post by david-gpu »

davidbanham wrote: post #17

I think the answer to this problem is take-home coding tests. They do the best job of simulating actual working conditions and minimising associated stress and anxiety. I've had this confirmed by multiple candidates I've used this approach with. I'm actually launching a product to streamline the process if anyone is interested. https://takehome.io

As a job seeker I would need to be pretty desperate in order to spend time doing homework assignments knowing how little they cost the interviewer.

Before I spend time as a candidate I want to make sure the interviewer is seriously considering me for the position.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#24

Post by aanm1988 »

> The big companies that use them have started to finally admit this

I didn't get as much whiteboard coding as I thought in my recent interview with a big company. Last 2 actually.

But of course facebook and google was still all coding. Google is still obsessed with their overwrought process, and still try to sell a poor false positive rate as a feature.

I still haven't really heard a better idea. Some of them sound incredibly hostile to the applicant (e.g. lets try it for X days). Do this work, bring it in and discuss is a pretty decent idea.

I'd like to see more of "here's what we want, lets code it on this computer however you want.". Lets talk about while we work.

or just talk about what you have done.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#25

Post by aanm1988 »

marssaxman wrote: post #2

I really don't understand where this meme has come from. How else are you supposed to assess a candidate's ability to do the job, if not to pose them a problem and watch them work?

It's not a realistic assessment of skills though. You don't write code on a whiteboard for work, you do it in an environment you have setup to let you work most efficiently. You have the option to look up things you can't quite remember, do some research to see if there is anything you missed, take a quick break to clear your head, etc...

Plus, too often it devolves into a game of algorithm trivia with the interviewer. Gotta prove how smart* you are.

"So what have you been working on?" "Oh I was the lead engineer on our new backend system. Built it on top of X, built a custom foobar because we needed to scale Y functionality blah blah blah" "Oh cool, cool. We actually are looking at building something similar. Well anyway enough of this obviously useless information exchange, here's a question about graph searches".

*smart may be substituted for grinding out leetcode questions for weeks beforehand, at the interviewees discretion.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#26

Post by werty1 »

davidbanham wrote: post #17

I think the answer to this problem is take-home coding tests. They do the best job of simulating actual working conditions and minimising associated stress and anxiety. I've had this confirmed by multiple candidates I've used this approach with. I'm actually launching a product to streamline the process if anyone is interested. https://takehome.io

Hi I just looked at your site. I found this very odd.

RESPECT YOUR CANDIDATES Strictly timeboxed tasks ensure candidates don't feel pressured to devote silly amounts of time to interview coding exercises.

The biggest issue I've found as an dev looking for work is that, employers often want a full functioning, production grade, api, with tests, and some integration tests. These requirements cause the issues, and timeboxing would surely compound them?

I guess there's a learning curve for the potential employer, but as an employee I wouldn't want to potentially be a guinea pig while they get their act together when understanding how long a task should actually take.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#27

Post by [deleted] »

RandomOpinion wrote: post #20
Apocryphon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what Triplebyte promises, but doesn't quite offer yet.

Triplebyte seems to angled toward doing pre-screening; the hiring organization still does a full interview loop afterward. What I proposed would be more along the line of handling the mechanics of administering a coding interview for a hiring organization while allowing their hiring manager & HR full control and also making the candidate as unstressed as reasonably possible.

[deleted]

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#28

Post by danderino »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #6

My experience is that knowing who's a good programmer is like knowing what's art: you know one when you see one. That's why I don't get the coding interview. Just an everyday conversation with a coder will give you a better idea whether he's any good or not, and it will do this without stressing him out or impugning his integrity (which is exactly what you're doing when you ask someone a bunch of trick questions on a…

I completely agree with you.

A simple conversation with someone is far more telling then having someone fixate on a single problem for 40 minutes

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#29

Post by caleblloyd »

RandomOpinion wrote: post #9
jkchu wrote: post #3

While I fully agree with the author that coding interview questions are not great, I think something important to keep in mind is that "fixing" programming interviews it is an incredibly difficult problem to solve. I think the best way to gauge a candidates programming ability is to work on a small project with them, similar to Automattic's approach [1]. Unfortunately, this method is extremely expensive, to both the…

I think there's a business opportunity here. Imagine something like ETS's system for administering the GRE: Come into a location in your city at a particular date/time, sit down at a computer pre-loaded with various editors / IDEs for common languages, and run through an 4-hour coding exercise specified by the hiring organization, and, at the end, your code is provided to the hiring organization for examination. Inte…

Honestly this sounds terrible. I would never take a proctored test for an interview. Might as well just send the company a copy of your grades from some computer tech class in school, because that is basically what you're proposing.

I will happily spend a few hours preparing an open source project and presenting what I've created as part of a final interview.

Relying on testing alone is going to get you good test takers. A great team needs a mix of of skills- technical experts, business minded folks, and motivated leaders. I don't have the magic answer but I'm sure that proctored testing is the wrong answer.

Re: Why you should refuse to participate in coding interviews

#30

Post by nunez »

I don't know how else one can prove that they can code without having some kind of a coding exercise during the interview. It doesn't have to be trivia-without-the-beer coding hour; it could be pair programming, a take-home, etc. But not coding at all? Doesn't make sense.
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