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Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

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Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other alternative is to use the tax income to offset other taxes, or even return it directly to citizens as a dividend.

Then what's the point of the tax? I can see how airlines may funnel some effort into R&D to reduce carbon emissions, but only to the point where it becomes profitable to them. Returning the tax as a dividend to the consumer is just as pointless as the consumer is in no way obligated to be climate conscious with their capital.

The point is to discourage carbon-profligate behavior by making that behavior more expensive. If you increased cigarette taxes and used it to lower other sales taxes that would still reduce cigarette use[1]. Maybe you'd get even faster reductions in smoking if the cigarette taxes were all earmarked for R&D on ways to end addiction, but making something more expensive tends to reduce consumption of it regardless of how the tax is later spent.

If you're wondering "why not use targeted legislative mandates instead of carbon taxes?", I'd say that taxes have an advantage in that they're harder to game and need fewer adjustments over time. For example, if you introduce a mandate to make cars more fuel efficient, manufacturers will tweak the vehicles they sell so they are no longer "cars" but some legislatively distinct class of vehicle, and people who like gas guzzlers will just drive those tweaked vehicles. But if instead there's just a carbon tax on fuel it's a lot harder to game your way around the legislative intent.

[1] Assuming that the balance between just paying the tax and evading the tax still favors paying it. You don't want to impose a $20/pack tax and find that you've just given organized crime a major boost.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#132
post #38

At issue is deteriorating coastline due to projects by the army corps of engineers. Don't confuse this with global climate change (although I'm sure it doesn't help).

While the ACOE has a complicated role in all this, they must serve many competing interests. The State of Louisiana, the needs of the maritime industry, oil and gas interests, and the federal government that allows the situation to continue, because of the temporary economic benefits we all reap from inaction. An incredible overview of the problem was written 20 years ago by John McPhee[1], as part of his book "The C…

I think you've got this backwards. Sometime in the 15th century, the Mississippi's course drifted westward and crossed with the Red River (now called the Atchafalaya River) at Turnbull's Bend. From that point forward, according to the laws of hydrology, the Old Mississippi was inevitably doomed. The ACoE's ORCS acts to prevent the Mississippi from being completely diverted along the Atchafalaya.

It's the parts of the delta which are fed by the Old Mississippi which are disappearing, and this is a totally natural process. The same river is what serves the port of New Orleans. The natural course of the river can only be temporarily stayed; it will find a way around the ORCS eventually. If the river is allowed to flow naturally, the majority of Southeast Louisiana, including New Orleans and Lake Ponchartrain, will disappear under the ocean.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other alternative is to use the tax income to offset other taxes, or even return it directly to citizens as a dividend.

Then what's the point of the tax? I can see how airlines may funnel some effort into R&D to reduce carbon emissions, but only to the point where it becomes profitable to them. Returning the tax as a dividend to the consumer is just as pointless as the consumer is in no way obligated to be climate conscious with their capital.

That is indeed the point of the tax. For businesses all up and down the supply chain to figure out how to do what they do, but with less carbon production.

There's a whole lot of businesses where that's relatively easy, but since carbon is effectively free, they'll happily squander it for no real gain.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#134
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this work? I don't see any explanation of the colors.

It was on the main page: Green and blue colors represent areas where surface water changes occured during the last 30 years. Green pixels show where surface water has been turned into land (accretion, land reclamation, droughts). Blue pixels show where land has been changed into surface water (erosion, reservoir construction).

Very cool, thank you.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#135
post #129
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If sea level rise were a seriously contributing factor to the Louisiana coastline problem then other Gulf coast states with similar topography (Alabama, Florida, Mississippi and Texas) would have a similar emergency. As far as I can tell, they don't to the same extent. How would you explain that sea level rise affects Louisiana more than other Gulf coast states?

Every one of those states you listed are experiencing increased coastal flooding thanks to climate change and yes that flooding damages marshlands.[0] Nowhere have I claimed that the issue in LA is solely AGW.. only that the sizable portion of the problem that is caused by AGW is going to fall on deaf ears in that region because of the amount of oil money there. [0] http://www.evergladesfoundation.org/2016/10/14/this…

So let's stipulate you are correct. What does it matter? You've made some noise but shed no light at all.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#136
post #29

The first two comments seem to associate anthropogenic climate change with the changes in Louisiana's coastline. A more likely culprit is hydrologic mismanagement. The coastline was formed by waterways that periodically changed channels and dumped sediment in different areas. In relatively recent times cities on the existing waterways became politically influential enough for the federal government to build a series…

Agreement on the mismanagement, I grew up in NOLA. High school taught me that pretty much 50% of Louisiana's land comes from the Mississippi jumping its banks and dumping silt into a new area for a while. Once you have cities lining a river's banks there's a strong economic pressure to try and keep the river where it is, despite the slow loss of land to erosion.

I don't think it's an either-or, though. The delta's generally pretty close to sea level (NOLA averages about 5ft below IIRC) as is, and when the seas rise, that means more Gulf and less Louisiana Delta. It'll just vanish quicker because we haven't been letting the river refresh the land for a few centuries.

Ultimately it becomes a question of how much money anyone is willing to dump into this; I wouldn't be that surprised to see the city I was born and raised in become either New Atlantis or New Venice in my lifetime.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#137
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of those states you listed are experiencing increased coastal flooding thanks to climate change and yes that flooding damages marshlands.[0] Nowhere have I claimed that the issue in LA is solely AGW.. only that the sizable portion of the problem that is caused by AGW is going to fall on deaf ears in that region because of the amount of oil money there. [0] http://www.evergladesfoundation.org/2016/10/14/this…

So let's stipulate you are correct. What does it matter? You've made some noise but shed no light at all.

If you are stipulating that I am correct, you still consider truth to be "noise" rather than "light"? I guess I am not following your point.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#138
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first two comments seem to associate anthropogenic climate change with the changes in Louisiana's coastline. A more likely culprit is hydrologic mismanagement. What is that based on?

Well, I wrote mismanagement this morning and have spent more time reconsidering the topic since. I'd guess that if people knew then what they know now, they'd do things differently or not do them. Using the word mismanagement is an unfair criticism. If the coastline changes were significantly caused by climate change/rising sea levels then the other Gulf coast states would have problems too. The link between the cont…

> I'd guess that if people knew then what they know now, they'd do things differently or not do them.

How I wish that were true. Many problems of humanity are very predictable - climate change is an easy one, but probably we can all think of some problems in the tech industry - and yet people do it anyway. If it were true, we wouldn't fight any wars.

> If the coastline changes were significantly caused by climate change/rising sea levels then the other Gulf coast states would have problems too.

That's not how it works. There is a lot of coastline in the world and the effect of climate change varies greatly. Look at just the East Coast of the U.S.: Miami is facing big problems; New Jersey is seeing some problems; New York is not (yet). Holland, with its low-lying reclaimed land, is likely to face problems long before the cliffs of Dover.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thirty years ago, John McPhee wrote about this very issue. At that time a ship on the Mississippi river could go through a lock, drop FIFTY FEET, and take a shortcut to the ocean via the Atachfalaya river. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya Just because it's not a new situation doesn't mean it's not an emergency.

Can someone explain the following bit from that article to me: "As the mouth advances southward and the river lengthens, the gradient declines, the current slows, and sediment builds up the bed. Eventually, it builds up so much that the river spills to one side." I'm having a little trouble understanding it. What does it mean for the mouth of the river to move southward? Does sediment build up and create new land nea…

> Does sediment build up and create new land near what used to be the mouth?

Yes, exactly right. This is what the entire southern coast of Louisiana is.

Envision the river like a wiggling hose spewing out water and sediment. As the sediment piles up in one area, that eventually is no longer the easiest path to the Gulf, and the hose jigs off to one side, finding a better path. When it does, it leaves behind huge, flat, fertile floodplains, bayous, and marshes. Then the new course too eventually fills up and it picks a new course again, often one of the previous ones which is now relatively more appealing.

It's been doing that for thousands of years, wandering around the southern coast of Louisiana, piling up sediment that flowed south into the great bayous and swamps.

That was until the Mississippi River became a giant trade path and New Orleans its terminus. If the Mississippi were allowed to change course and allow most of its water to reach the Gulf by going through the Atchafalaya River, the ports of Baton Rouge and New Orleans would be left dry. Meanwhile, Morgan City would be washed into the Gulf.

To prevent that, the Army Corps of Engineers has, for decades built barriers along the sides of the Mississippi to force the water to stay in that channel. Those barriers in turn reduce friction and cause the River to flow faster and faster. That means that instead of building up sediment at the current end of the river, that stuff is getting washed farther out into the Gulf.

Meanwhile, the Atchafalaya Basin and other areas which would have gotten their "turn" and had their own deltas built up have been left to erode with little new sediment coming into them.

This has been a well-known problem for longer than most of us have been alive. In the early 90s, I did a science project as a kid on it. But New Orleans has never been known for its long term planning. ("Laissez les bon temps rouler.") See also: Hurricane Katrina, which was an infrastructure failure more than a weather disaster.

So here we are.

Prediction: The only intended goal of this measure is to suck more federal cash into Louisiana which will be used to line political pockets. No real substantive ecological or infrastructure changes will come of it.

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