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Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

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Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#61

Post by skybrian »

Mz wrote: post #37
adventured wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the fine line comes in. Did Excite sign a contract saying that they had the funds to pay in the case of winning the bid? I don't know the answer to that, it wouldn't be an uncommon requirement when bidding on a contract like that however. Microsoft almost certainly lied on multiple occasions about what they already had, in trying to get MITS and IBM to take them seriously. The common historical story goe…

What I am saying is there is a difference between "It has not been done, but I believe I can pull it off" and "Look, look, we can totally do this and have already succeeded, here are the (completely faked) test results proving it!" The former is a gamble, but it may be an informed gamble where you already have some idea of how to make it happen. The latter is a lie. Startups absolutely should be operating in the real…

It's extremely common to get the tense wrong. "This is what our product does" instead of "this is what our product will do." (They hope, if all goes well.) This is not (just) grammar nit-picking, it's often the difference between a promise and a lie.

For public companies, this is what results in "forward-looking statements" boilerplate. But it happens all the time in technical presentations.

I try to call people on it, but sometimes it's a losing battle.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#62

Post by seansmccullough »

Mz wrote: post #10

Wow. Okay, this takes it from "Shit happens and people can be totally deluded" to actual, genuine fraud. Edit: Also, how can people be that stupid? You have to know the truth will eventually come out? Right? Or, no? I don't get it.

It's just like Pied Piper on Silicon Valley!

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

tetrep wrote: post #56

Can't read the Journal article so not sure if it has this or not, but reply from Theranos: This is a one-sided filing by one party to litigation, and we will respond at the appropriate time in the appropriate forum. We disagree with much of what PFM alleges in its complaint. This is not, however, the time or place to contest their mischaracterizations of the record. We will litigate this case in court, where it belon…

> ... consistent with her longstanding, personal commitment to doing the right thing for the Theranos shareholder base...

Uh huh. That's why the offer comes with a "you agree not to sue us" clause, I'm sure.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#64

Post by ceejayoz »

dmix wrote: post #52
cylinder wrote: post #41

So will Holmes go to prison? A green card holder in Texas was just​ sentenced to eight years in prison for voting in a US election. Surely Holmes will go away much longer right?

Is there even a criminal investigation here? I thought this was over a lawsuit. This guy got 6.5yrs in prison for defrauding investors by making it appear the company had value it actually didn't: https://www.law360.com/articles/892055/broker-gets-6-5-years... It's difficult to find other examples as most investor fraud is based on directly milking investors with obviously false claims. For example, this SF startup f…

> Is there even a criminal investigation here?

Seems like there sure should be.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#65

Post by bbctol »

chromagnon wrote: post #51
anigbrowl wrote: post #39

I told you her schtick was too smooth. 'I'm too driven to care about anything but my work' is always a red flag.

The whole 'coming out of nowhere' thing is another red flag. This idea that an undergraduate built revolutionary medical tech in their dorm room no less? Who invests in that? With no data, no trials, no feasibility study?

People who are used to software success stories, not medical tech success stories. An undergraduate having an idea that changes the world is possible in the relatively unconstrained space of software (which the bubble is used to), less so in the long, dull slog of primary scientific research.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#66

Post by Mz »

skybrian wrote: post #61
Mz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I am saying is there is a difference between "It has not been done, but I believe I can pull it off" and "Look, look, we can totally do this and have already succeeded, here are the (completely faked) test results proving it!" The former is a gamble, but it may be an informed gamble where you already have some idea of how to make it happen. The latter is a lie. Startups absolutely should be operating in the real…

It's extremely common to get the tense wrong. "This is what our product does" instead of "this is what our product will do." (They hope, if all goes well.) This is not (just) grammar nit-picking, it's often the difference between a promise and a lie. For public companies, this is what results in "forward-looking statements" boilerplate. But it happens all the time in technical presentations. I try to call people on i…

Yeah, one of my very, extremely backburner (dead?) projects is called The Memome Project. The idea was to try to develop the architecture of ideas more solidly. Words and ideas have real value, meaning and power. I think Startups very much operate in the realm of ideas. Some ideas are really solid things, based on good mental models and rubrics and good data. And others are basically hot air. They are cheap and insubstantial and don't mean much of anything.

We need better ways to talk about and think about and measure the difference between those two things. The difference can be the difference between brinkmanship and outright fraud.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#67

Post by bambax »

slimsag wrote: post #44
drspacemonkey wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't - what happened?

I was curious and googled a bit. Relevant part: > In the past year and a half, the grandson and grandfather have rarely spoken or seen one another, communicating mainly through lawyers, says Tyler Shultz. He and his parents have spent more than $400,000 on legal fees, he says. He didn’t attend his grandfather’s 95th birthday celebration in December. Ms. Holmes did. > “Fraud is not a trade secret,” says Mr. Shultz, wh…

> what the hell is wrong with Theranos that they seemed so focused on attacking anyone who questions them, rather than focusing on actually fixing the problem

The problem is unfixable because it's a complete fraud. There is nothing. They're holding the fort for as long as possible, and it's amazing they've been able to hold it for so long.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#68

Post by stanfordkid »

adventured wrote: post #24
exhilaration wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to fool yourself into believing that the fraud is just a temporary necessity while you work out the final kinks in your product.

It's a frequent fine line in tech. To get a contract, Bob Noyce claimed for a buyer that Fairchild could produce & deliver a new type of transistor, in a large quantity, without having any production capability for it yet, as it had never been built. Excite bid on getting a place on Netscape's browser, before having the money to actually pay for it (they figured they'd get it afterward): http://bnoopy.typepad.com/bno…

I went to Stanford (hence the screen name) ...

Stanford students are generally sheep that know one thing for certain: That they are smart enough to get into Stanford and that they now have pretty much zero excuse to not be successful.

They assume that other things (vision, relentless lifelong obsession) are means to ends. It is a fertile breeding ground for what Trungpa Rinpoche most accurately describes a "Spiritual Materialism"

Their logical conclusion is that the key to success is not relentless pursuit of practice, but rather playing tricks like the ones you describe.

Bob Noyce, Bill Gates, Marc Andressen all succeeded as a result of their passion and relentless dedication to a narrow problem space over years of effort. They saw "the truth" and thus were able to make those leaps. "Truths" are always present in every society ... and are hidden. Unfortunately it requires dedication to uncover such truths and most stanford students would rather re-use the same hammer that got them into Stanford on real life than to truly seek "truth".

That's my 2 cents.

EDIT: I can see how this was condescendingly phrased and discriminatory towards a large group of people. We should all note that the person who outed Ms. Holmes was also a Stanford student and did something very brave. I was just annoyed with seeing this pattern everywhere and even partaking in it myself -- something that impacted me very negatively.

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#69

Post by jacquesm »

bronson wrote: post #46
drspacemonkey wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't - what happened?

Theranos and Boies teamed up to make his life hell. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161117/15475936076/thera... One might imagine what they'd attempt if he wasn't related to a boardmember, or if his parents didn't have $400K for legal fees...

Yes, that David Boies:

https://www.forbes.com/2003/05/28/cz_vm_0528sco.html

Re: Theranos Secretly Bought Outside Lab Gear, Ran Fake Tests: Court Filings

#70

Post by nojvek »

ceejayoz wrote: post #64
dmix wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there even a criminal investigation here? I thought this was over a lawsuit. This guy got 6.5yrs in prison for defrauding investors by making it appear the company had value it actually didn't: https://www.law360.com/articles/892055/broker-gets-6-5-years... It's difficult to find other examples as most investor fraud is based on directly milking investors with obviously false claims. For example, this SF startup f…

> Is there even a criminal investigation here? Seems like there sure should be.

Looking at what happen to the Abhishekh Guttani case in Santa Clara court I believe SV courts are a joke in giving any serious punishments.

I am willing to bet she wouldn't be charged jail time for more than six months. She would have enough contacts and money to may be totally avoid it.

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