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Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

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Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#71

Post by throwaway999a »

accountyaccount wrote: post #56
user5994461 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you are a GAFA CEO 2 years before you IPO and you are asked to pay 593 millions based on the estimated value of your shares.

I keep trying to imagine it, but I can't get past the part where I'm excited about having hundreds of millions of dollars.

Just having hundreds of millions of dollars wouldn't be particularly exciting once the novelty wore off. The exciting part is earning hundreds of millions of dollars via the immense success that it implies/requires.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#72

Post by gok »

WJW wrote: post #25
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

For the US maybe. Income tax in the Netherlands (my country) in the top bracket is 52%. On the second hand, we have no capital gains tax so he might come out ahead when exercising options. On the third hand, we have a wealth tax of 1.2% on your entire capital above a certain floor (of about 20k) so he might not come out ahead in the end. It's always interesting to see the opinions of different cultures about how much…

The top bracket is 52.9% in California. Of course, the Netherlands' tax brackets are much less progressive than those in the US/California; the top bracket is around ~$80K vs. ~$1M.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#73

Post by youdontknowtho »

I personally think that after the first 1.5 million that they tax rate should be 100%. That's still an incredibly large amount of money. After that we need the resources to tackle problems and we can't if people hoard them.

I know that it sounds simple, and lots of people on this site will disagree, but I'm having trouble justifying this kind of extreme wealth to myself anymore.

There are so many people in poverty and ignorance. What's it for any way if people are starving and illiterate?

I'm really not looking forward to some of the responses to this comment, but I find myself thinking more and more about the morality of letting people accumulate massive sums when the resources that wealth could muster go unused by the people that need them most.

I don't know. I'm genuinely interested in hearing what other people here have to say if you can keep from being condescending or mean. Please be nice.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#74

Post by Maarten88 »

WJW wrote: post #25
tdehollain wrote: post #13

That's $593M taxes on $1.34B earnings on exercising stock options...44% tax rate is pretty harsh!

For the US maybe. Income tax in the Netherlands (my country) in the top bracket is 52%. On the second hand, we have no capital gains tax so he might come out ahead when exercising options. On the third hand, we have a wealth tax of 1.2% on your entire capital above a certain floor (of about 20k) so he might not come out ahead in the end. It's always interesting to see the opinions of different cultures about how much…

In the Netherlands, his bonus and income would have been structured differently, he'd have had a personal holding to 'catch' the money before it would have been taxed income or capital taxes, and he'd have paid next to nothing (yet). He could have delayed selling off stock to pay taxes for as long as he'd have wanted.

I'm not sure how entrepreneurs do this in the US, is Musk being patriotic paying so much taxes, or is there really no way to delay/avoid having to sell stock to pay taxes?

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#75

Post by idbehold »

bmelton wrote: post #63
idbehold wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Go look at the tax-rates of the 1950's. The only way he was able to acquire that much money was because of the infrastructure paid for by tax revenue. The only reason he wasn't robbed by someone else was because of the law enforcement paid for by tax revenue. I could go on, but I think you get the point. His wealth is built upon the shoulders of tax revenue.

Worth noting that he'd likely have netted about the same in the 1950s. Despite the constant assertions of those who fondly reminisce about the days of 90%+ income tax rates, there were so many more deductions that it all basically came out the same, while disincentivizing the outright hiding of wealth. Moreover, the law enforcement that prevents him from being robbed is paid for by tax revenue, but not federal tax re…

FBI? Also, who mentioned federal tax revenue or income tax? It wasn't me.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#76

Post by lastyearman »

maratd wrote: post #42
bsbechtel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Figuratively speaking, what can you do with 747M that you can't do with 300M? Invest in starting brain-computer interface and rocket companies

And I believe a boring company, hyperloop, other efforts in AI, etc. A more substantive question is how that money would be spent by the relevant parties. I would argue that Musk would spend it better than the federal government and as such, he should have it.

How could that be? Suppose Musk controlled all the resources in the world. What motivation would he have to allocate them fairly?

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#77

Post by jedberg »

824ueirwfjd wrote: post #60
jedberg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He lives in California. 9% of that was to the state.

13.3% actually... this is why I don't understand why anyone starts a company in California when you can go to other states like WA that have no income tax

Good point, he was subject to the extra wealth tax.

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#79

Post by seattle_spring »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #73

I personally think that after the first 1.5 million that they tax rate should be 100%. That's still an incredibly large amount of money. After that we need the resources to tackle problems and we can't if people hoard them. I know that it sounds simple, and lots of people on this site will disagree, but I'm having trouble justifying this kind of extreme wealth to myself anymore. There are so many people in poverty an…

> I personally think that after the first 1.5 million that they tax rate should be 100%

Not that I'm anywhere close to this problem, but I would simply stop working after hitting that mark. Why would I work for free?

Re: Tesla's Musk Paid at Least $593M in Income Taxes in 2016

#80

Post by idbehold »

maratd wrote: post #50
idbehold wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Go look at the tax-rates of the 1950's. The only way he was able to acquire that much money was because of the infrastructure paid for by tax revenue. The only reason he wasn't robbed by someone else was because of the law enforcement paid for by tax revenue. I could go on, but I think you get the point. His wealth is built upon the shoulders of tax revenue.

There was no income tax in the US prior to 1913. Did people go around murdering and stealing? Was everyone poor? Traditionally, all the things you mention are NOT paid for by income taxes even now.

> There was no income tax in the US prior to 1913.

Did I say income tax revenue or just tax revenue?

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