theatre defence is seen as espionage lol its not like both China and the USA haven't got massive elint/sigint operations
South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
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Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#12What a disaster in that region last few weeks... Let's review: SK impeached its president; NK tested more missiles; US bungled the messaging of the armada, reversed position on China's currency manipulation, then "realized it's not so easy"; then China spins PR against SK for deploying a defense, then they add on some passive aggressive internet hacking. Maybe things aren't so bad elsewhere.
Actually I don't think it's that bad for South Korea, despite what some media says.
1. impeachment: Ultimate example of democracy at work. And no general stepped forward to declare he must rescue the nation from the chaos or did the society collapse. All institutions are working as they should. Unlikely to see such calm transition of power when a president is impeached in non-developed nations.
2. NK is NK, always firing missiles, even before all this.
3. S Korean govt is at least able to respond and/or have US willing to put in the weight to respond. Remember Ukraine?
No seriously, S Korea cannot be compared with other places with bad things happening now.
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#13Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#14China has only themselves to blame. They've let their little client state (North Korea) get out of control to the point where they have nukes and have made threats of using them. If they didn't want a nuclear arms race amongst their neighbors, they should have taken appropriate action years ago.
You make it sound like it is perfectly ethical and reasonable to interfere with another sovereign state's defense systems unilaterally. Edit: I think I have read much into the parent comment and made a strawman fallacy here.
Well, NK has been at times dependent on aid from China, so it doesn't seem too unreasonable to ask China to try to restrain NK's aggressiveness.
On the other hand, your point would apply pretty well to China's response to South Korea's defense systems. (It's not just that China's calling it espionage; the article mentions serious hacking attacks.)
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make it sound like it is perfectly ethical and reasonable to interfere with another sovereign state's defense systems unilaterally. Edit: I think I have read much into the parent comment and made a strawman fallacy here.
Well, NK has been at times dependent on aid from China, so it doesn't seem too unreasonable to ask China to try to restrain NK's aggressiveness. On the other hand, your point would apply pretty well to China's response to South Korea's defense systems. (It's not just that China's calling it espionage; the article mentions serious hacking attacks.)
Yes, you have a point. But I would argue that while intelligence operations are commonplace practices of states, direct military actions require more thoughts and it is not something Chinese government would carry out without proper justification.
Basically on this matter, the Chinese government has taken a similar approach as the previous US administration, which is to not take actions. On hindsight of course it is easy to say China (Obama) should have done this or that. But it was quite hard to justify actions against NK until pretty recently. And indeed actions were taken in the form of economic sanctions in light of recent events.
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#16China has no one but Xi is to blame. He gets an F for foreign policy. By delaying action on North Korea at the beginning of their nuclear ambition, they've increased tensions in the region with very little benefit to China and a ton of win for US, S. Korea & Japan by having powerful THAAD radars.
It is the radars that is the bigger issue because it diminishes China's nuclear projection in the region.
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#17China has only themselves to blame. They've let their little client state (North Korea) get out of control to the point where they have nukes and have made threats of using them. If they didn't want a nuclear arms race amongst their neighbors, they should have taken appropriate action years ago.
You make it sound like it is perfectly ethical and reasonable to interfere with another sovereign state's defense systems unilaterally. Edit: I think I have read much into the parent comment and made a strawman fallacy here.
I guess you didn't see my comment below that China deployed long range radar system to monitor the sky of South Korea and Japan like 10 years ago? Or are you just ignoring that?
US military is present in South Korea and Japan because of N. Korea and China, not anybody else.
You don't see such US military presence in NZ or Australia.
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#18China has only themselves to blame. They've let their little client state (North Korea) get out of control to the point where they have nukes and have made threats of using them. If they didn't want a nuclear arms race amongst their neighbors, they should have taken appropriate action years ago.
The last time the USA tried to build a ballistic missile defence system, Ukraine got invaded and split into two (if not officially, at least practically). Turns out that when big powerful countries start feeling a bit squeezed, they create buffer zones. By invading a neighbour.
Not trying to make up excuses for any of the parties involved here. Just pointing out that China likely won't sit on its ass as this happens.
The only silver lining I see is that maybe this will provide China with the incentive to just throw Kim under the bus (literally under a bus... or a tank) and put some less belligerent puppet in his place.
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#19China has only themselves to blame. They've let their little client state (North Korea) get out of control to the point where they have nukes and have made threats of using them. If they didn't want a nuclear arms race amongst their neighbors, they should have taken appropriate action years ago.
You make it sound like it is perfectly ethical and reasonable to interfere with another sovereign state's defense systems unilaterally. Edit: I think I have read much into the parent comment and made a strawman fallacy here.
How does that comment in any way imply that it's ethical or reasonable to interfere with another state's defense systems?
Re: South Korea’s deployment of THAAD upsets China, seen as espionage tool
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make it sound like it is perfectly ethical and reasonable to interfere with another sovereign state's defense systems unilaterally. Edit: I think I have read much into the parent comment and made a strawman fallacy here.
I guess you didn't see my comment below that China deployed long range radar system to monitor the sky of South Korea and Japan like 10 years ago? Or are you just ignoring that? US military is present in South Korea and Japan because of N. Korea and China, not anybody else. You don't see such US military presence in NZ or Australia.
You misunderstood my point. I have nothing against deploying defense structures among allies or in one's own territory.
I was referring to the "possible actions" that could have been taken against NK by China earlier, proposed by the parent comment.