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Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

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Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#111

Post by splawn »

paulsutter wrote: post #109
splawn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rising sea levels due to AGW is a contributing factor[0]. Living in an area (whose economy is) also dominated by the oil industry, I understand why you and the people living in your area tend to be confused on this. [0] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170314081553.h... EDIT: added source link

> they were able to calculate how rapidly sea level is rising with respect to the coastal wetland surface Your link doesn't support your claim. It says region has a higher-than-average relative change. The sea doesn't rise locally, but the ground can sink downward locally.

The fact that there is a global average sea level rise to compare it against does.

EDIT: I gave you an upvote for at least reading my source, thank you.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#112

Post by killjoywashere »

splawn wrote: post #107
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being condescending. Everyone in the area knows that the main culprit in losing coastline isn't AGW but the taming of the river, essentially dumping sediment that used to build the delta over the continental shelf, and all the channels cut into the marsh.

My apologies, I didn't mean to be condescending. However, It is a fact that sea level rise is a large factor in this, even if it is not the "main culprit". Most people in that area rely on the oil industry either directly through employment or indirectly through the local economy so they tend to have a blind spot when it comes to AGW, which is completely understandable.

Having lived in the area, I will attest that a significant number of locals definitely have a blind spot about oil's contribution to AGW. However, AGW is not their primary problem, nor is it something they can do much about (yes, there are things they can do, and some do them). But they, and only they, can move their local dirt around, so they're doing what they the can do.

Interesting tidbit: check out Wikipedia's timeline of party strength in Louisiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Lo...

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#113

Post by MisterBastahrd »

bkkssnn wrote: post #53
arbuge wrote: post #36

Meanwhile, on CNN's front page today: http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/us/louisiana-climate-change-sk...

>Dotson gets red in the face, repeating that scientific studies showing climate change as affecting weather patterns or warming the Earth are simply wrong. This godly redneck can tell yearly temprature average fluctuations by 0.1 degrees, and using it as anecdotal proof that climate change is a fraud. >"The climate is exactly the same as when I was a kid. Summers hot, winters cold."

My dad is 70. Growing up, he'd show me all the places he used to fish with his dad where they could fill their ice chests in a couple of hours. These were canals on the side of the road, mind you. Now, you're lucky to get a bite at any of them, and unless the wind is blowing just right and the tides are perfect, you aren't filling your limit, much less your ice chest, at any of the prime fishing spots in the area. And if you ask him, he'd say "I guess we caught too many fish," completely ignoring the ecological and climate impact we've had on the area.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#115

Post by obstinate »

scriptkiddy wrote: post #104
obstinate wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's still better for it to be taxed than not. I would be perfectly happy to see a revenue neutral carbon tax. What the tax is spent on is orthogonal.

No, what the tax is spent on is extremely important. For instance, if revenue from a carbon tax is funneled into subsidies for cattle ranchers, it's kind of counter-intuitive isn't it?

Money is fungible. Generally speaking, new taxes are not causally linked to spending on any particular issue.

Obviously, subsidies to cattle ranchers are bad. But whether they are funded from increased debt or a carbon tax does not affect their badness.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#117

Post by cmpb »

killjoywashere wrote: post #110
zdean wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent comment disagrees with you that it's an emergency...I think he's surprised by the designation because it'll focus attention on the root source of the problem and make the local governments confront a not-new problem of their own making...it's a focus they may not expect or want.

> attention ... the local governments ... may not want Having lived on the west bank, south of New Orleans, if there is anything I expect from Louisiana politicians, it's a keen pursuit of their personal, short-term self-interest. If they can each make $50,000 by dumping 50B in the Gulf, they vote "yea" before their sclerotic arteries see another hypertensive heartbeat.

Snideness aside, I agree that LA politicians are (largely) more likely to take the money and run instead of helping guide that money to where it would make a difference. One can only hope that Edwards's attitude is itself not self-interested. I think it's a reasonable hope, though, given that we've yet to see Edwards do anything nefarious* with large amounts of money despite the fact that he's seen lots of money pass through his office (e.g. with the recent flood money).

* I might be uninformed on this point. If anyone knows about some poor money-handling from his office, feel free to correct me

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#118

Post by hackuser »

evilduck wrote: post #78
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea levels have risen due to global warming by about 20 cm in the past century. This is most definitely one of the reasons for the receding coastline in Louisiana. They are both contributing factors.

I lived in LA for several years. Global warming is a factor in receding coastlines worldwide, but on this particular coastline it's a very small factor relative to the complete mismanagement of waterways and marsh ecosystems. As it goes on, rising sea levels will play a bigger role in a large part of Louisiana disappearing, but right now the crisis is a different man made disaster. 20cm over a century is practically…

> I lived in LA for several years.

I'm not sure how that informs you on the cause.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#119

Post by hackuser »

adolph wrote: post #29

The first two comments seem to associate anthropogenic climate change with the changes in Louisiana's coastline. A more likely culprit is hydrologic mismanagement. The coastline was formed by waterways that periodically changed channels and dumped sediment in different areas. In relatively recent times cities on the existing waterways became politically influential enough for the federal government to build a series…

> The first two comments seem to associate anthropogenic climate change with the changes in Louisiana's coastline. A more likely culprit is hydrologic mismanagement.

What is that based on?

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#120

Post by hackuser »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #24

At issue is deteriorating coastline due to projects by the army corps of engineers. Don't confuse this with global climate change (although I'm sure it doesn't help).

People keep stating this, but what is the basis? Beyond a doubt, there will be a lot of claims out there from deniers that climate change isn't causing the problem, whether true or not.
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