'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#51

Post by artursapek » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #6

Midway down the author mentions a study that showed most Americans object to "unfairness" rather than "inequality". I've found this to be the case for me personally. If someone tries hard, works diligently, and makes smart decisions, but are still living in poverty, I want to help them. No hardworking, disciplined, motivated person should live in poverty, or have trouble making ends meet, in my opinion. Unfortunately…

I've noticed an alarming lack of financial intelligence among people my age (I'm 24). People have no concept of saving money or investing, and consume as much as they possibly can. Lots of people are within a month of running out of cash, and have credit card debt.

Looking back on my public school education in the US, I'm kind of shocked that there was never a required course on personal finance. We had to spend weeks studying every major war in history, something that will never matter to us in our day-to-day lives, but we're left on our own to figure out how to stay out of debt and build a future for ourselves as working people. This directly impacts our lives every single day.

You pretty much have to read niche blogs and subreddits to even be exposed to it in our culture. It worries me a lot.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#52

Post by djrogers » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #19

"Inequality" is a bad rallying cry because no two people are equal, and few would like to be equal to someone else. So what people mean by "inequality" is always something else, and varies in meaning from person to person. Even if you choose something concrete, like "equality of income", few really mean that an 18 year old should have the same income as a 45 year old. Ordinarily a meaningless word is great for a rall…

> few really mean that an 18 year old should have the same income as a 45 year old.

Pretty sure a lot of the 22 year olds I saw at occupy rallies thought exactly that. I am a bad person for working for 20 years to get where I am without giving most of my money to people that haven't.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#53

Post by cmdrfred » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

EthanHeilman wrote: post #31

cmdrfred wrote: post #2

I'd take the calls to "fight inequality" more seriously if they didn't have such a nationalist tone. 71% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day, if inequality was ended on a global scale the majority of the people out there protesting would see a dramatic drop in income. I have a feeling that isn't what they are talking about.

It depends which form of inequality you are taking about. For instance consider the argument that the criminal justice system does not provide equal justice based on race or income and that it should. If this inequality was fixed this does not imply a net reduction in justice. Instead decreases in this form of inequality would result in a net increase in justice. Based on your comment I assume you are addressing inco…

Global per capita GDP is roughly 10 thousand dollars per year.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

The median income in the US is 51 thousand dollars and even if you made minimum wage (15k yearly) you'd see a 50% drop in income in a completely equitable system.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#54

Post by Jabanga » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #35

Jabanga wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally disagree that this should be the rallying cry. Why should someone who invests nothing in their own children get to see their children have equal opportunities to the children of another person who invests everything into their children? Why should a person who has 10 children get to see each one have the same amount of opportunity as each one of the children of someone who has 2 children, assuming equal…

Quality schooling, basic health care, and a way to pay for college for academic excellence aren't going to take away all the nice things you can afford to treat your child to. A decent minimum line is as much helping you (a functioning, healthy society lasts much longer) as it is others. Every other first world country has those things I mentioned above for its citizens, and it's embarrassing how apathetic the public…

I don't see any basis for that. Substantial taxes could very well reduce how much one can invest into their own children.

I also don't see how other countries doing it is a justification.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#55

Post by drabiega » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #6

Midway down the author mentions a study that showed most Americans object to "unfairness" rather than "inequality". I've found this to be the case for me personally. If someone tries hard, works diligently, and makes smart decisions, but are still living in poverty, I want to help them. No hardworking, disciplined, motivated person should live in poverty, or have trouble making ends meet, in my opinion. Unfortunately…

Why is stress management / relaxation a bad decision? As far as they go, Netflix and video games are some of the best time/value propositions for these aspects of life.

Being poor is a constant juggling act between physical/mental/financial health. I don't think it makes sense to look at trade-offs between them as bad decisions.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#56

Post by CocaKoala » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #6

Midway down the author mentions a study that showed most Americans object to "unfairness" rather than "inequality". I've found this to be the case for me personally. If someone tries hard, works diligently, and makes smart decisions, but are still living in poverty, I want to help them. No hardworking, disciplined, motivated person should live in poverty, or have trouble making ends meet, in my opinion. Unfortunately…

What about people who tried hard, worked diligently, made smart decisions, got bogged down in poverty, and decided that there's no point in trying hard, working diligently, and making smart decisions if they're just going to get bogged down in poverty?

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#57

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #19

"Inequality" is a bad rallying cry because no two people are equal, and few would like to be equal to someone else. So what people mean by "inequality" is always something else, and varies in meaning from person to person. Even if you choose something concrete, like "equality of income", few really mean that an 18 year old should have the same income as a 45 year old. Ordinarily a meaningless word is great for a rall…

[deleted]

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#58

Post by ForHackernews » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #6

Midway down the author mentions a study that showed most Americans object to "unfairness" rather than "inequality". I've found this to be the case for me personally. If someone tries hard, works diligently, and makes smart decisions, but are still living in poverty, I want to help them. No hardworking, disciplined, motivated person should live in poverty, or have trouble making ends meet, in my opinion. Unfortunately…

What about 'unfairness' in the other direction? Anecdotally, I know plenty of people born into upper (or at least middle) class families who have made impulsive or bad decisions: not working hard in university or at their jobs, abusing drugs, getting DUIs, etc.. Almost all of them are "succeeding" despite their bad choices.

Lack of social mobility can mean it's difficult for poor people to rise above their station, but it also means it's hard for the rich to screw up badly enough that they suffer real consequences for their mistakes.

You say no hardworking, disciplined, motivated person should live in poverty, but what of the lazy, undisciplined wastrel offspring of the upper classes? Should they live in [relative] luxury?

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#59

Post by charles-salvia » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

After running a mental Principal Components Analysis over the whole liberal/conservative ideological spectrum, I'm increasingly inclined to reduce the entire divide between conservatives and liberals to whether any given individual is more irritated by the prospect of (A) poor people being lazy and abusing handouts or (B) rich people abusing poor people.

Re: 'Fight Inequality' Is a Poor Rallying Cry

#60

Post by TSiege » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 4:15 PM UTC

tnorthcutt wrote: post #23

chrismealy wrote: post #8

The author has been on the payroll of the Koch brothers for most of his career.

Source?

I was skeptical as well, but it's true.

Cowen is the director of the Mercatus Center, which is heavily funded by the brothers. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center

And here's an article on that connection https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/06/gary-north/the-koch-brot...