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Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

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Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#81

Post by Arizhel »

bkkssnn wrote: post #46
djanogo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They are leading people not to change their behavior and this is the result." Rising sea level is the _result_ of Mr.Trump swearing in 3 months back?, I understand this forum is echo chamber for anti trump discussions, but you are reaching so far here. Most peoples behavior is mainly due to capitalism, all of them, multiple generations, were raised watching ads which gets them to buy new "stuff" all the time, so "st…

Didn't see annyone saying it's a result of Trump mabey you are just looking for somethign that's not there? But one things for sure. When POTUS flat out says climate change is a hox and dsn't get called out, we are in trouble.

Not only that, but the state of Louisiana voted for Trump in the election. For them to be complaining about rising sea levels is the height of hypocrisy. They don't believe in climate change, so how can they complain about rising sea levels?

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#82

Post by neverartful »

erentz wrote: post #2

I have real issues with states like this where it's leaders deny climate change and prevent action on it, yet cry when issues like this occur. Similar when the BP oil spill occurred and they cried about the affect on their coast and fishing industries. They seemingly are fine with destroying their environment so long as it occurs over 50 years rather than 5 months.

It's not as simple as you may think. There have been problems with coastal erosion in south LA long before anyone even brought up the idea of global warming. As another poster mentioned, creating canals through the marshes lets salt/brackish water come further inland than it would have (especially with hurricanes). The salt water kills some of the vegetation that holds the marsh together. Another big factor is dredging years ago. Dredging was done as part of creating canals, but also to gather shells that were used for decades to make 'gravel' roads and such. Probably most significant of all (as pointed out by others) was putting in river control structures (primarily levees) long ago by Army Corps of Engineers. The prevents the natural build-up of silt, sediment, and alluvial soil that built up the river plains and deltas.

All of these things occurred long before there was any discussion of global warming. The state can be blamed for excessive dredging and cutting canals, but hindsight is 20/20. Putting in river control structures was considered the right thing to do back then (Mississippi River levees were built in 1800s), and certainly was not only done by those in LA.

Now comes global warming/climate change and it complicates the picture even more. The solutions to all of these problems are not mutually exclusive. Coastal erosion exacerbates the problem of rising seas for coastal areas.

Another tricky factor is where people should and should not live. It's easy (and logical) to say people shouldn't live in areas prone to heavy flooding, and if they do they should accept the possibility of flooding as a consequence of their decision. For example, the lower 9th ward in New Orleans that was completely flooded in Hurricane Katrina was known to be susceptible to major flooding (it had happened at least once before in the 1920's or thereabouts). The majority of the people that live there are poor, their families have been there all their lives, and most probably don't have the means to pick up and go someplace else.

Of course LA residents are responsible for many of these things that have occurred over very long periods of time. But when you consider the full story and where they are today, it's not like the problems in the coastal areas are only the result of global warming.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#83

Post by scriptkiddy »

obstinate wrote: post #72
s_kilk wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provided we don't wipe out all our annual carbon savings in one go by flying to Thailand for holiday. I fear this is the thing that'll prevent any real progress toward managing climate change. While everyone will accept using canvas bags instead of plastic, they also want to keep the luxuries they've become accustomed to.

If we as a world get serious about it and begin taxing carbon emissions from flights (and other sources), I'm confident that we'll be able to handle the problem. There is going to be some extreme global discomfort in 2100-2200, but we're not going to go extinct and things will be getting better by 2400-2500.

I'd only be comfortable with taxing carbon emissions from flights if all of the tax money was directly funneled into clean energy research and development. Otherwise, it's just going into the pockets of politicians and funding defense contractors.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#84

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

evilduck wrote: post #78
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea levels have risen due to global warming by about 20 cm in the past century. This is most definitely one of the reasons for the receding coastline in Louisiana. They are both contributing factors.

I lived in LA for several years. Global warming is a factor in receding coastlines worldwide, but on this particular coastline it's a very small factor relative to the complete mismanagement of waterways and marsh ecosystems. As it goes on, rising sea levels will play a bigger role in a large part of Louisiana disappearing, but right now the crisis is a different man made disaster. 20cm over a century is practically…

1.) 20cm is huge. You cannot build a levee system around the whole Mississippi Delta.

2.) It is a combination of both. To put a number to it. 5–6 mm per year because of land subsidence and about 3 mm per year because of rising sea levels [1]. So, about 30 % is due to rising sea levels, which is pretty significant in my opinion. Especially because this effect appears to be accelerating. These numbers seem small, but their effect is devastating.

3.) I have also lived in LA for a year :)

[1] http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/43/6/519

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#85

Post by NotSammyHagar »

riffraff2 wrote: post #50
arbuge wrote: post #36

Meanwhile, on CNN's front page today: http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/us/louisiana-climate-change-sk...

The fisherman denier, ""It doesn't concern me. What is science? Science is an educated guess," Dotson says defiantly. "What if they guess wrong? There's just as much chance as them to be wrong as there is for them to be right." lol

That was an illuminating article. The people who convince people like this that there is no global climate change, that they should hate gays, the whole republican conservative bullshit all together plus tax cuts for billionaires are in your interest, they are evil, bad people. Like the people who argued against cigarette warnings, or the people that used the bible to argue that blacks were destined to be slaves from the bible.

We bear responsibility for our actions, me too.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#87

Post by NotSammyHagar »

snomad wrote: post #66
coldpie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be great if the conversation were about how we can solve these problems, but currently the conversation is about whether the scientific reality of climate change is actually a hoax invented by the Chinese. So long as these yahoos keep getting elected, we've got a long ways to go before we start talking about cutting beef out of our diet.

Then don't take about global warming. Talk about conserving water, talk about providing cheaper forms of energy for cars / home, talk about enhancing federal / state parks, etc.

It sounds good on first thought as a strategy for those anti g.w. folks to move on to your second step. But tons of those yahoos act like cheaper energy in bad for people. It's bad for people selling oil, but good for everyone else.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#88

Post by NotSammyHagar »

djanogo wrote: post #40
spodek wrote: post #3

I've been asking people to name the most effective leaders in the area of global warming. When I say my answer, they look surprised, but then agree: the Koch Brothers and Donald Trump. They are leading people not to change their behavior and this is the result. No one is leading in the direction of reducing consumption with nearly the effectiveness as them. Instead of leading ourselves, the overwhelming majority of A…

"They are leading people not to change their behavior and this is the result." Rising sea level is the _result_ of Mr.Trump swearing in 3 months back?, I understand this forum is echo chamber for anti trump discussions, but you are reaching so far here. Most peoples behavior is mainly due to capitalism, all of them, multiple generations, were raised watching ads which gets them to buy new "stuff" all the time, so "st…

No one said it's trump's fault, but he's going to hurt things. He is supporting that whole view though, and his policies are going to lead to serious problems, if he is effective in getting them enacted.

Re: Louisiana’s Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Disappearing Coastline

#90

Post by self_assembly »

philipov wrote: post #63
bkkssnn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing i still don't get is that most of these people have kids right? How can it not be a relevant issue for them ?

I suspect there is a lot of "If I don't do it first, someone else will, and they'll be the ones to make all the profits" going on. In that kind of environment, the best thing you can do for your kids is make as much money as possible so at least they will be rich enough to enjoy whatever's left.

Isn't that the definition of a race to the bottom. I have no idea how far away the bottom is, but it seems like once we get there that money might not be all that useful.
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