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Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#211

Post by raducu »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11

They had female fighter pilots in world war 2 and the first female astronauts. That was long before anybody in the west could even think of that possibility. Not sure if it's a Russian thing or communism. East Germany also had more female engineers and scientists.

There's a wikipedia page with with female astronauts(google list of female astronauts).

Out of the 60 that actually flew to space, only 2 are from the USSR/Russia, and both of them were elected to the soviet/people's representatives, so I'd say female astronauts in the USSR was nothing but a publicity stunt.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#212

Post by humanrebar »

Pharylon wrote: post #126
SilverSlash wrote: post #15

Maybe because like men all over the world, Russian women aren't specially "encouraged" to go into tech? Maybe nobody has to tell them or tell anyone to 'like science'. People just do. The same argument goes for women in science. Albert Einstein was told he wouldn't amount to much. Doesn't mean he 'got discouraged' and quit physics. That's not why we do science - for public appreciation - we do it because we love it n…

Yes, because each one of us is an island, and we're not influenced by society at all as it is. I have a two year old and I can tell you fighting against pinky-princess girl culture is a battle. As a parent, it's you vs basically the rest of society that sends a million little cues about what girls are supposed to do. I had this conversation with my daughter the other morning: Daughter: I want to be a boy when I grow…

Agreed.

They (i.e., Disney and Viacom) do have princesses-types doing actiony stuff thinking it's the same thing. And encouraging women to lean in.

They don't typically write those females to think like a someone in engineering, exploration, or security, though. Boys watch Batman be Batman, train hard, think ahead, get beat up, but still be heroic. Girls watch, what, the girl from Brave do action hero things and fight with her mom. Or the princesses from Frozen use amazing powers to resolve what end up being relationship issues.

Honestly, though, I suspect it's difficult to get writers for kids' shows that can think like, say, a theoretical physicist. Writers tend to get art or English degrees.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#213

Post by humanrebar »

Pharylon wrote: post #126
SilverSlash wrote: post #15

Maybe because like men all over the world, Russian women aren't specially "encouraged" to go into tech? Maybe nobody has to tell them or tell anyone to 'like science'. People just do. The same argument goes for women in science. Albert Einstein was told he wouldn't amount to much. Doesn't mean he 'got discouraged' and quit physics. That's not why we do science - for public appreciation - we do it because we love it n…

Yes, because each one of us is an island, and we're not influenced by society at all as it is. I have a two year old and I can tell you fighting against pinky-princess girl culture is a battle. As a parent, it's you vs basically the rest of society that sends a million little cues about what girls are supposed to do. I had this conversation with my daughter the other morning: Daughter: I want to be a boy when I grow…

Agreed.

They (i.e., Disney and Viacom) do have princesses-types doing actiony stuff thinking it's the same thing. And encouraging women to lean in.

They don't typically write those females to think like a someone in engineering, exploration, or security, though. Boys watch Batman be Batman, train hard, think ahead, get beat up, but still be heroic. Girls watch, what, the girl from Brave do action hero things and fight with her mom. Or the princesses from Frozen use amazing powers to resolve what end up being relationship issues.

Honestly, though, I suspect it's difficult to get writers for kids' shows that can think like, say, a theoretical physicist. Writers tend to get art or English degrees.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#214

Post by simonh »

67726e wrote: post #154
simonh wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Balance isn't the goal. Equal opportunity is the goal. If the imbalance is due to a lack of interest in a field by one gender or another that's perhaps regrettable but not a moral issue. If the imbalance is due to obstacles or prejudices faced by one gender over another then would you agree that is a moral issue that is more important for society to rectify?

Equal opportunity exists. You're asking for equal outcomes.

This article is literally about research that has identified inequalities in opportunity. Is expecting you to even know what we're talking about really too much to ask?

But off you go and take a look. I'll sure you'll find something in the research you don't even seem aware exists, linked above, to complain about. At least we'll have something to discuss instead of just slinging mud around.

Also, please, point out anywhere in my posts where I asked for equality of outcome? Which of my posts are you even talking about?

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#216

Post by Grue3 »

Because the basic premise of the article is wrong. Nowhere where I worked the ratio of women in tech positions has exceeded 10%. In many ways people here are way more sexist.

At my former job my superior told me that he had a job application from a woman and said to me basically "women can't be programmers, their brains are just wired differently" and asked me if I met any women programmers. I said the gender doesn't matter, and yes, we had one woman programmer at a job before that one, and she was pretty good (but yeah, just one). Anyway, he actually hired her, so I'd like to think I changed his mind.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#217

Post by nnfy »

simonh wrote: post #204
nnfy wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the inane assumption, which is now taken as a fact (without rigorous substantiation) that any male heavy gender ratio is a result of bias by white men (not even necessarily the majority, mind you, we simply ignore fields where women are over represented). Not to mention the conflation of equality of opportunity with equality of achievement. In our society it has become a taboo to even consider that str…

Did you read the article? If it were just an assumption and no effort had been put into investigating the reasons for it and if/how those reasons can be addressed you would be right. From the article: "A new study from Microsoft sheds some light...gender stereotypes, few female role models, peer pressure and a lack of encouragement from parents and teachers largely to blame." So no assumptions are being made, this ha…

Your comment concluded with the following:

> If the imbalance is due to obstacles or prejudices faced by one gender over another then would you agree that is a moral issue that is more important for society to rectify

However, as per the very quote you present >A new study from Microsoft sheds some light...gender stereotypes, few female role models, peer pressure and a lack of encouragement from parents and teachers largely to blame

Which shows that the discouragement is far from the fault of prejudice from hostile white men in the industry. And this is exactly the kind of nonsensical assumption which is popular to make when this topic is discussed, as you've just done.

And to further highlight your own bias, do you seriously mean to suggest that there is anywhere near as much interest in promoting gender equality in female dominated fields as the reverse?

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#218

Post by nommm-nommm »

djkrudy wrote: post #27

Probably the same way they're so good at getting 9 year olds into the Olympics.

That's China, not Russia and while its almost indisputable that age falsification happened nobody was that young, more like 14. I think one even confessed to being underage a few years later.

Its worth noting the age limit for gymnastics was only raised to 16 in 2000 and many previous Olympic gymnasts competed while 14, including Nadia Comăneci who earned a perfect score (which was until then considered unobtainable, the scoreboards weren't equipped to even handle that score) at 14. Of course, at the time, the Chinese athletes were competing against other athletes that followed the age rules which, arguably, gave them an unfair advantage.

That's all irrelevant though because the whole subject is totally off topic.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#219

Post by reitanqild »

Grue3 wrote: post #216

Because the basic premise of the article is wrong. Nowhere where I worked the ratio of women in tech positions has exceeded 10%. In many ways people here are way more sexist. At my former job my superior told me that he had a job application from a woman and said to me basically "women can't be programmers, their brains are just wired differently" and asked me if I met any women programmers. I said the gender doesn't…

And that is IMO the way it should be done: standing up and saying the obvious with enough power that it actually get heard.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#220

Post by JBlue42 »

mynegation wrote: post #57

As a Russian who got university education in Russia and worked in both Russia and Canada, I can confirm that the reasons are both cultural and economic. First, for the big part Soviet Russia did not have a sizeable percentage of stay-at-home mothers: women were _expected_ to work, childcare was absolutely free, tight living conditions made multi-generational families, when retired grand-parents took care of children,…

The "free child care" aspect I would think definitely helps. I have co-workers that are either lucky enough to have parents around to help or end up paying $2k/mo for pre-school for their very young kids. The kids had to be put on a waitlist before they were even born. I'm in the US, in Los Angeles.
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