Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#81

Post by golergka » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

rishabhsagar wrote: post #73

golergka wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsourcing companies in Ukraine or Russia don't have the same problem.

That is not because Ukraine and Russia don't have bad (hence cheap) IT staff. It has more to do with IT resources from India generally tend to be the sweet spot of cheap enough and good enough (for a cheapskate, penny foolish myopic offshoring companies) resources.

Hm. I can get a competent developer from Russia for $1000 a month plus taxes; how much does that super-cheap Indian developer cost?

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#82

Post by oceanghost » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 10:58 PM UTC

SamUK96 wrote: post #33

oceanghost wrote: post #5

People recognize Indian engineers (competent or not, racism or no) as the weapons of wage suppression.

I mean, when you put your "scum-bag profit or nothing boss" thinking hat on, it makes so much sense. You can hire these people, and they'll accept extremely noncompetitive wages (lowers wages), over-saturates the labour market (lowers wages), AND gives a nice boost to PR because on the outside it seems like this company is "diversely hiring from all backgrounds". Great!

All the people who didn't wear that hat-- got fired by the people who did.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#83

Post by trowawee » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #60

plaban123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad "Indian code" is what the client is paying for. If you pay 1/10th of American salary to recruit developers in India who are at the bottom of the stack in terms of competency, what are you expecting?. Everything is magnified in India because of the population. We have bad coders to CEOs of American corporations. But this works as well. Thats why TCS, Infosys, etc are billionaire dollar enterprises.

Outsourcing companies in Ukraine or Russia don't have the same problem.

I would disagree. I've worked on legacy products created by Eastern European engineers that were absolute nightmares.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#84

Post by rishabhsagar » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 8:23 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #81

rishabhsagar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not because Ukraine and Russia don't have bad (hence cheap) IT staff. It has more to do with IT resources from India generally tend to be the sweet spot of cheap enough and good enough (for a cheapskate, penny foolish myopic offshoring companies) resources.

Hm. I can get a competent developer from Russia for $1000 a month plus taxes; how much does that super-cheap Indian developer cost?

A competent IT developer / analyst can be hired for about 450 - 600 GBP per day. Run of the mill, hit or miss offshore resources provided by TCS / Infosys etc are usually billed at 150 - 300 GBP per day.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#85

Post by restalis » Fri, Apr 21, 2017, 1:09 PM UTC

pimmen89 wrote: post #71

en3rme wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't want what's fair, people want what's better for them. I don't want my wage to lower just so people in the third world can live better because I, honestly, don't give a fuck about them. That's the sentiment that's rising lately.

And this is where the tribalism comes in to play. At some point, governments have to do what's fair and not what the angry mob they represents want. White Europeans might've wanted colonialism hundreds of years ago, and to this day some people don't really care when their military commits war crimes against "them". It's hard for me to sympathise with the view that "the real unfairness here is that people born in mise…

"At some point, governments have to do what's fair and not what the angry mob they represents want."

Fair to whom? A government has to be fair primarily to their subjects. It's their subject's trust and resources that mandate government's power. Outsiders haven't contributed with nothing prior to their coming so it's unfair to give them equal amount of consideration about anything in the first place.

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#86

Post by posguy » Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 11:01 PM UTC

bmon wrote: post #38

posguy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are tired of the corporate owned politicians allowing companies to run roughshod over the laws, morals & expectations of society. This is expressed in many ways, from xenophobia to the rise of Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump. People don't want another corporate owned shill like either of the Clintons, both Bushes, and Obama, and I'd wager that Obama knew this in 2008, hence why he made sure his moderately grassr…

This is satire right? I'm struggling to see how obama rates as corporate shill while trump is somehow an angel...

Trump is no angel, and I sincerely hope you did not take my comment that way. I hate Trump, he is a myopic, self-centered late stage capitalist that can't handle basic logic.

That being said Obama was no angel, TPP, SOPA & PIPA were all corporatist bills he fought for alongside Keystone XL, and he was happy to feed the military industrial complex while warmongering overseas while letting the drug wars continue in the US.

Why waste our resources on stupid wars and bad policies that most Americans dislike?

Re: Countries that are reducing numbers of immigrant workers

#87

Post by posguy » Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

bendermon wrote: post #22

posguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing in low cost foreign workers to maintain a system directly drags down the average wage, hurting Americans in the IT industry and lowering their income & benefits. Foreign workers are a tool that companies like to use to scare IT workers away from organizing & unionizing, keeping the Americans they do employ under foot and poorly paid. As an example, Kroger has a support center for its Fred Meyer brand of stor…

What you say is true, but as I mentioned that works only with legacy systems, which are often just cost centres. There are in general very few people who can work with or want to work with legacy systems and therefore does demand a very good pay but it does not add any value to the American economy.

These aren't legacy systems, just a few years back Kroger started moving off IBM 4690, which was a legacy OS. That is gone from most areas of the business at this point, hence the expectation to be familiar with SUSE.