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Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

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Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#161

Post by tempestn »

akinalci wrote: post #53
endorphone wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do have a grievance with a much lower pay ceiling across Canada, those numbers are ridiculously low even if in US dollars as I assume they are. I don't put much stock in the StackOverflow survey. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but your take on TN visas is extremely simplified. For instance software developers aren't actually allowed to have a TN visa, and instead you have to say that you're a "system…

Here's another source, Payscale.com: Software engineer (Canada): $51,000 (C$70,000) Software engineer (US): $80,825 The gap here is smaller ($30k vs. $50k) but still significant. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm more inclined to believe two surveys than a random person's claim. [1] http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... [2] http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engin…

You can't expect salaries to move (quickly) with currency fluctuations though. A couple years ago the US and Canadian dollars were at parity, and those $70k and $80k salaries would have still been about the same. So not much of a gap at all, especially considering healthcare costs. Yes, at the current exchange rate, Canadian salaries are quite a bit lower when priced in USD. Most day to day expenses are proportionally lower too. (Although not all. Things like electronics tend to be tied to the US price somewhat, although not 100%. Housing is also inflated, especially in places like Vancouver and Toronto, but that's largely a separate issue. You'll notice that, for example, you can buy cars cheaper in Canada right now. (In fact, if you're in the US shopping for a reasonably high-end car, you can almost certainly save money by importing one from Canada.))

So yeah, a lower dollar is somewhat bad for employees who see some of their costs go up (in CAD) due to the exchange rate, as well as those who are planning to spend their earnings in other countries. It's also bad for companies that need to import goods. Of course it's good for companies that export goods, especially those with costs (like employee salaries!) paid in CAD. If the dollar stays low (in a relative sense) for long enough, these things tend to be pulled back into equilibrium, but they never move as fast as currencies can fluctuate.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#162

Post by sanswork »

canistr wrote: post #41

As far as Toronto is concerned, nobody grows to the size of a multi-national juggernaut. Everyone takes the buyout/merger/acquisition way before that ever happens. It's often been said, what major multi-national corporation has their headquarters here? Reuters is the only one and they are technically headquartered in New York now. The companies that get that far will typically come out of other places where they aren…

Brookfield is another.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#163

Post by acchow »

tempestn wrote: post #161
akinalci wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another source, Payscale.com: Software engineer (Canada): $51,000 (C$70,000) Software engineer (US): $80,825 The gap here is smaller ($30k vs. $50k) but still significant. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm more inclined to believe two surveys than a random person's claim. [1] http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... [2] http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engin…

You can't expect salaries to move (quickly) with currency fluctuations though. A couple years ago the US and Canadian dollars were at parity, and those $70k and $80k salaries would have still been about the same. So not much of a gap at all, especially considering healthcare costs. Yes, at the current exchange rate, Canadian salaries are quite a bit lower when priced in USD. Most day to day expenses are proportionall…

5 years ago when exchange rates were at parity, salaries were lower than they are now. You can't just take the present day $80k cad figure.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#164

Post by hueving »

CalRobert wrote: post #159
afsina wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see people flocking even after Trump won.

Why would you see them? Every move is different, and every person has their own motives. Often there are several. I'm not crazy about the direction the US is going, but regardless of the president I really like getting a month a year off.

>Why would you see them?

If any relevant number of people left you would know someone anecdotally at a minimum or be impacted in your tech company.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#165

Post by macspoofing »

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

On the other hand, basing your startup in Canada means dramatically lower costs (made even better with programs like SR&ED), while still having access to a talented pool of developers. And yes, there are plenty of people who simply do not want to move South, and plenty of people willing to move North.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#166

Post by tempestn »

acchow wrote: post #163
tempestn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't expect salaries to move (quickly) with currency fluctuations though. A couple years ago the US and Canadian dollars were at parity, and those $70k and $80k salaries would have still been about the same. So not much of a gap at all, especially considering healthcare costs. Yes, at the current exchange rate, Canadian salaries are quite a bit lower when priced in USD. Most day to day expenses are proportionall…

5 years ago when exchange rates were at parity, salaries were lower than they are now. You can't just take the present day $80k cad figure.

Marginally lower; certainly not proportionally to the difference in exchange rates. Also note the CAD figure was $70k.

I haven't researched the historical averages and correlated them with exchange rates, but I have been employing software developers in Canada for around 8 years now and so have kept current on market rates. In my experience, currency fluctuations, even on the order of 25-30%, have very little impact on market salaries.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#167

Post by hueving »

bootload wrote: post #142
akinalci wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another source, Payscale.com: Software engineer (Canada): $51,000 (C$70,000) Software engineer (US): $80,825 The gap here is smaller ($30k vs. $50k) but still significant. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm more inclined to believe two surveys than a random person's claim. [1] http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... [2] http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engin…

"The gap here is smaller ($30k vs. $50k) but still significant." Healthcare, stability and democracy (sans land/house prices) make up a lot for this.

>Healthcare, stability and democracy

Healthcare: We're talking about tech jobs. The healthcare coverage you will get from any tech company paying 6 figures is going to be essentially zero cost full coverage.

Stability: I have no idea what you are even talking about here, but it would be pretty hard to refer to the US as unstable from the perspective of someone working in a tech job. I suspect you pay too much attention to click-bait news and not enough talking to people that live here?

Democracy: again, what is this even referring to? The fact that the US is a republic? That's a pretty weak argument when comparing to a monarchy.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#168

Post by ruairidhwm »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #160
ruairidhwm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is extraordinarily frustrating given how close our cultures our and the amount of talented developers who'd like to take a role in the US. I just had an interview fall through because I'm a Brit and it would be difficult to get me over to SF due to the visa system. Maybe I should look for a dev job in Canada? :P

I think Canada is pretty easy for UK/Ireland. I know a few people who moved there for work with relatively little planning and within a couple of years, they've got permanent residence. They moved for standard big company jobs too, it's not like they're experts in their field or anything.

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking about it. I speak English and French plus am legally qualified and can program so I think I should have a good shot!

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#169

Post by raverbashing »

totony wrote: post #124
tostitos1979 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If salaries and housing prices in Canada were at all reasonable, I know many fellow Canadians would move back from the Bay area in an instant. Toronto is the other major tech center which is stupidly priced (hopefully the new govt measures slow things down). If you can speak french, consider Montreal.

Be mindful that there is (mostly) terrible weather everywhere in Canada except in Ontario/South BC(Vancouver)

"Less terrible" in Ontario, "not great" in BC

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#170

Post by empressplay »

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Even Australia is better than Canada, $100K for a senior dev vs 80K and the cost of living is pretty much the same.
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