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Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

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Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my benefit, would you be willing to share your salary or range (and currency :)?

I'm not the grandparent post, but, my salary in Canada was $80K starting in 2000, and is up to $160K now. I've been making more than double the median wage in my city for the last 20 years or so.

$160k CAD = $120k USD.

And you have 20 years experience? If you are good, you could be making 4x this in the Bay Area. Or more,

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#122
post #64
post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Yes, that more or less sums it up. Plus you have fewer job opportunities and career mobility as well as higher taxes and rapidly rising real-estate prices in both Vancouver and Toronto. I think Canadian software engineers are crazy to stay in Canada. I'm a Canadian software engineer living in Canada, but I'd never consider working for a Canadian or US company here and earning Canadian dollars - it just makes no sense…

  as well as higher taxes and rapidly rising real-estate prices in both Vancouver and Toronto
Taxes are lower in Ontario than California for most people.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#123
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of cities that are expensive compared to tech wages and others that are financially conservative. Why do people think they will be the next SV? Maybe Chicago could be a contender?

I think the closest contender isn't on this list because there's no need to fluff it up on a regular basis - New York. They don't need to keep telling themselves they'll be the next silicon valley.

I have read plenty of articles about New York overtaking Silicon Valley.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those numbers are ridiculously low even if in US dollars as I assume they are. I don't put much stock in the StackOverflow survey. Then put stock in a the words of a guy who has actually looked for employment in Canada, and after the election of Trump is very incentivized to take a positive view on moving to Canada: as far as I can tell from the salaries posted, I'd take about a 50% pay cut, and I wouldn't be able to…

If salaries and housing prices in Canada were at all reasonable, I know many fellow Canadians would move back from the Bay area in an instant. Toronto is the other major tech center which is stupidly priced (hopefully the new govt measures slow things down). If you can speak french, consider Montreal.

Be mindful that there is (mostly) terrible weather everywhere in Canada except in Ontario/South BC(Vancouver)

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#125
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are either not paid enough for a SF/SV engineer, or were paid quite a lot in Canada. Even with my increased rent and food I'm saving in a year what took me 2-3 in Canada.

Parent's mistake is to maintain the same lifestyle. If you settle for less housing or room mates, you come across ahead.

Why would someone move for work if it meant a lifestyle downgrade?

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#126
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that more or less sums it up. Plus you have fewer job opportunities and career mobility as well as higher taxes and rapidly rising real-estate prices in both Vancouver and Toronto. I think Canadian software engineers are crazy to stay in Canada. I'm a Canadian software engineer living in Canada, but I'd never consider working for a Canadian or US company here and earning Canadian dollars - it just makes no sense…

I thought in Panama (and anywhere else outside the US) you have to pay income tax on earnings over $100k. I think you have to pay into Social Security too?

Yes that's correct. Although, if you're working remotely you're not likely to be making much over $100K, so it may still be worth it. Your take home may still be close to working in the Valley, and your cost of living, excluding food will be less than half.

I'm Canadian though, so I don't have to deal with the long-armed-fingers-in-my-pockets embrace of Uncle Sam. Every other country in the world is sensible enough to only tax residents.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#127
post #96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shopify https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Shopify-Ottawa-Salaries-EI_I... Software Developer $80,947 Software Engineer $96,600 500px https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/500px-Salaries-E600778.htm Software Engineer $93,333 The averages are pulled down by lots of mediocre companies. Startups and big places like Google and IBM have salaries that are nowhere close to your numbers. Couple this with taxes here being much much lo…

For reference: $96,600 CAD == $71,718 USD

Sure, but most of these sky high US salaries are in the bay area. So consider that the cost of living is roughly double there:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#128
post #14

It makes me feel proud that Canada has been North America’s up-and-coming startup center since I graduated from Waterloo over 20 years ago. That's a solid, consistent track record of almost being there.

There has been a story equivalent to that on the front page every few weeks for the last five years that I've been reading HN. I attribute it to some kind of watch-goliath-fall fantasy. That has been amplified dramatically since Trump got elected. Since then, a couple dozen countries are now supposedly candidates to swipe a lot of tech talent away from the US. Nothing will come of it; even more high-skilled talent wi…

This sort of arrogance only hurts you.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#129

What bothers me about these articles is that they lay out all these reasons for why a place will be great, or is a great place to start a company, but then why -- in spite of these assets -- does that place not produce like Silicon Valley? I am not saying Toronto is not a great city to live and work and start a business. But if it has all these things going for it, why isn't it producing startup value per capita like…

You are assuming there is no political influence here. Unfortunately there it's a major component and it mostly comes from the investors who are currently primarily US based.

First they will tell you it's impossible to succeed without them. Very aggressively so. Then, if you sign on, they will tell you that you can't succeed unless you move to Silicon Valley. They'll connect you with dozens of experienced people all chanting the same mantra. Eventually most people succumb to it.

But it not scientific. It's not "proof" of any sort. It's simply a very well funded agenda to keep Silicon Valley as the king of innovation. I don't blame them, it's a good strategy, but it's also one very rarely discussed or even recognized.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#130

What bothers me about these articles is that they lay out all these reasons for why a place will be great, or is a great place to start a company, but then why -- in spite of these assets -- does that place not produce like Silicon Valley? I am not saying Toronto is not a great city to live and work and start a business. But if it has all these things going for it, why isn't it producing startup value per capita like…

I think there are a number of factors here, and I don't think social factors should be ruled out. There are a number of startups here, but there are also many community/social innovation hubs[1] and organizations that draw in a lot of people who come here to start something up. The number of jobs I have seen posted for the "Next Flipp!" the "Next Uber!!!" is outstanding. How many flyer-aggregate apps do people really…

Actually, MaRS has been not at all useful in my experience. Additionally, Toronto is home to a lot of great startups, though many are a bit smaller than the giants, but some are giants. Shopify and 500px are good examples. Smaller examples are AgileBits who make 1password and PagerDuty. There are more too, in enterprise, legal, you won't have heard of these as the aren't consumer facing.
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