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A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

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Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#211

What is it with tech companies and fucking terrible name/branding analogies? Docker. Ok, works with containers I get... wait. Your logo is a WHALE with a bunch of shipping containers on it. You know that whales DISAPPEAR underwater for hours at a time, and shipping containers are NOT MEANT TO DO THAT? Ok ok maybe it was an honest mistake hey whats this new thing moby.. wait. Whales. Moby. Moby dick? Your project is n…

Moby was the perfect name for a chaos monkey docker equivalent.

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#212
post #73

So devops conferences will no longer sound like "Docker docker Docker? Docker. Docker docker docker docker? Ahh, Docker docker Docker docker docker." Now they'll sound like "Moby moby moby...?" This seems absurd from a branding point of view. I personally find this a little bit vindicating. I'm 39, which is like 120 in programmer years. I feel like one of the advantages of being an "old" (in quotes!) programmer is th…

Because it's cheaper to "snapshot" and roll back, than to pay somebody capable to fix the thing.

I'm 36, and have seen most of what your described and more.

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#213
post #60
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, because it's true. Their employees were fairly outspoken about it at Dockercon. I had one just dramatically and rudely turn and walk away from me mid-sentence when I mentioned I was using Kubernetes.

Hi, I'm the founder of Docker. That is very surprising and absolutely not OK. I'm sorry that you experienced this. Could you contact me directly at solomon@docker.com to give me more details? There is no animosity towards kubernetes, quite the contrary. We are working with the kubernetes community to integrate the individual components of Docker, so that everyone can reuse each other's code and ideas. For example: -…

Hi Solomon,

Thanks for responding. There really isn't many more details other than that. It was in DockerCon Seattle in the space needle. I don't remember who the employee was. I did generally get the feeling that Docker employees felt at least wary or worse about k8s. That was from more than just that once situation, but from multiple interactions I had over the conference with employees. I only pointed out that one interaction because it made me certain that at least that employee was more than wary.

I'm happily using Docker and it was a good conference otherwise.

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#214
post #75

Hi all, Docker founder here. It appears that the explanation in the pull request is not very clear. Sorry about that. We didn't expect the PR to be the first thing people read: there is a new website at mobyproject.org. Unfortunately Github is struggling under the load, and I can't update the PR text to clarify. Here is an updated version with some clarifications: Docker is transitioning all of its open source collab…

Hey Solomon, here are some 'starters for 10':

- Who will be able to use the Docker trademark? If someone built a fork of Docker CE from Moby, can they still call it Docker? What about distribution packagers?

- Right now a single binary ('docker') is used to build images and runs clusters (among other things). As the monolith is broken down, will the new binaries still be named/branded 'docker'? Will there be rules about packaging only some of them? Will Docker CE/EE still have a single binary for all purposes?

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'll clean up your phrasing (since you're getting downvoted for some reason) but could I ask, is this something you really first thought of when you heard the name? Is it UK slang? I've never heard it. I don't think you should be downvoted for the info (even though it doesn't actually apply, they will keep the name for their commercial stuff) as it's news to me.

I'm familiar with it, but somehow jumping to it whenever hearing about "Docker" is akin to thinking of AIDS when one hears about "hearing aids" or anal in Google Analytics - it doesn't seem like a problem unless someone decides to over-read.

Who ever said it was a problem? I just want the t-shirt.

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#216
post #75

Hi all, Docker founder here. It appears that the explanation in the pull request is not very clear. Sorry about that. We didn't expect the PR to be the first thing people read: there is a new website at mobyproject.org. Unfortunately Github is struggling under the load, and I can't update the PR text to clarify. Here is an updated version with some clarifications: Docker is transitioning all of its open source collab…

Do you know that keeping your users in a constant state of confusion is not the way to convince them that you're building a stable and secure product? Also, isn't it kind of ironic that you built your company on OSS and then invited a well known destroyer of OSS onto your main stage? Plus, I want my DockerCon money back. What exactly did you announce besides multi-stage builds at the general sessions that is actually…

> Plus, I want my DockerCon money back. What exactly did you announce besides multi-stage builds at the general sessions that is actually benefiting Docker users? I don't care about your plumbing and constant rebranding, other than finding it very discouraging, I want to know what you're actually doing with your product this year. I guess nothing.

I was annoyed at the fact that I paid $150 extra for a workshop, "Docker for Publishers" that while useful in itself, I could have done in large part for free as a Hands On Lab: "You'll then deploy both a certified Docker image, as well as a certified Docker plugin."

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#217
post #73

So devops conferences will no longer sound like "Docker docker Docker? Docker. Docker docker docker docker? Ahh, Docker docker Docker docker docker." Now they'll sound like "Moby moby moby...?" This seems absurd from a branding point of view. I personally find this a little bit vindicating. I'm 39, which is like 120 in programmer years. I feel like one of the advantages of being an "old" (in quotes!) programmer is th…

Because it's cheaper to "snapshot" and roll back, than to pay somebody capable to fix the thing. I'm 36, and have seen most of what your described and more.

Yes I get that, but you can do that with "git".

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#218
post #75

Hi all, Docker founder here. It appears that the explanation in the pull request is not very clear. Sorry about that. We didn't expect the PR to be the first thing people read: there is a new website at mobyproject.org. Unfortunately Github is struggling under the load, and I can't update the PR text to clarify. Here is an updated version with some clarifications: Docker is transitioning all of its open source collab…

Many people really love the name Docker.

Could you explain the reasoning behind the need for a new name?

I ask this because would it not have been a better choice to name the other releases differently.

For example:

  Docker (docker/docker) = open source development.
  Docker CE (docker/docker-community) = free product release
  Docker EE (docker/docker-enterprise) = commercial product release based on Docker CE (private).
The components that the monolith is being broken into could just live beside the other repos in the docker organization:

  docker/component-1
  docker/component-2
  docker/component-3
Thoughts?

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#219
post #33

Why am I having the feeling that Docker Inc is being pissed about everyone making money off docker except Docker Inc. themselves ? This is not nice.

Oh, because it's true. Their employees were fairly outspoken about it at Dockercon. I had one just dramatically and rudely turn and walk away from me mid-sentence when I mentioned I was using Kubernetes.

I admit to being a little surprised to hear that too. Certainly it's a polarizing topic, I'm sure, but I also went to a talk either by a Docker Captain or employee that spent five minutes talking about K8s, and not in a denigrating or discouraging way whatsoever.

Re: A new upstream project to break up Docker into independent components

#220
post #75

Hi all, Docker founder here. It appears that the explanation in the pull request is not very clear. Sorry about that. We didn't expect the PR to be the first thing people read: there is a new website at mobyproject.org. Unfortunately Github is struggling under the load, and I can't update the PR text to clarify. Here is an updated version with some clarifications: Docker is transitioning all of its open source collab…

Are you not concerned that this move (relabeling the open source version different from how the product is known to the broader public) might further diminish the number of contributors that are now already down 50% / back to 2014 levels?

see https://www.openhub.net/p/docker for statistics on that.

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