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Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

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Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#61

Post by _delirium »

Luc wrote: post #43
joe_the_user wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the gp said. A trademark dispute is not necessarily a straightforward legal at all. Buying the claim of one side and using your power to enforce an otherwise tenuous sounds like ... uh bullying.

No, bullying would be to involve lawyers. Apple has enforced the (unregistered) trademark of a fellow indie game developer the same way. Documentation was provided, the other party changed the name of their app, and everyone continued on their way without tears or lawyers. All quite civil if you ask me.

Would they enforce the indie-game developer's trademark if it were against an app that was: 1) not a game at all; and 2) came out a year before the indie game of the same name? That seems to be the case here--- Apple is claiming a trademark case against an app in a different genre than its own "Facetime" application, and which came out a year earlier.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#62

Post by _delirium »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #46
chc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that the app name did not infringe, yes. Apple's trademark is for communications software and his is for a timer program.

That's not how trademarks work. You register in a class, here in the UK FaceTime wasn't registered until this March. It's registered against the Nice Classificiation ( http://www.wipo.int/classifications/nivilo/nice/index.htm?la... ) meaning that if you want to use the term FaceTime for anything encompassed by classes 16 or 35 then you need to license the trademark. Apple are an international company and need to abid…

If it was only registered in March 2010, doesn't that cause a problem for using the Madrid-system registration to enforce the trademark against products that were released in 2009, like this one? At least in the U.S., the various presumptive benefits of having a registered trademark are much weaker if you're trying to enforce it against a usage that preceded the registration. It seems they would have to rely on the older FaceTime Communications USPTO marks in order to establish priority, but those marks are only in the narrower U.S. classes.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#63

Post by ErrantX »

glhaynes wrote: post #60
ErrantX wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only "not great" thing is that it is Apple that have introduced this as a problem, not this app developer. Which is a bit brutish.

It would be "less brutish" if the app developer were to have done it?

Well I was trying to choose a relatively non-negative word. Apple made an app, then "bought" a name - and then enforced it.

Kosher, yep I guess. A little forceful; yes definitely.

It's not something most people would make a habit of doing.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#64

Post by joe_the_user »

Luc wrote: post #43
joe_the_user wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the gp said. A trademark dispute is not necessarily a straightforward legal at all. Buying the claim of one side and using your power to enforce an otherwise tenuous sounds like ... uh bullying.

No, bullying would be to involve lawyers. Apple has enforced the (unregistered) trademark of a fellow indie game developer the same way. Documentation was provided, the other party changed the name of their app, and everyone continued on their way without tears or lawyers. All quite civil if you ask me.

Sometimes trademarks don't matter much and everyone can happily and informally settle the question. But it quite possible for a given trademark to be the main asset of a small business and thus when a larger business can happily use "informal" methods to take possession of that trademark, it would qualify as bullying - if you can get away without lawyers, it's actually worse bullying in this cases since you don't need any legal standing.

I don't know the exact story here - I'm just reacting to a claim that Apple informally deciding everything is inherently fair.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#65

Post by pbhjpbhj »

_delirium wrote: post #62
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how trademarks work. You register in a class, here in the UK FaceTime wasn't registered until this March. It's registered against the Nice Classificiation ( http://www.wipo.int/classifications/nivilo/nice/index.htm?la... ) meaning that if you want to use the term FaceTime for anything encompassed by classes 16 or 35 then you need to license the trademark. Apple are an international company and need to abid…

If it was only registered in March 2010, doesn't that cause a problem for using the Madrid-system registration to enforce the trademark against products that were released in 2009, like this one? At least in the U.S., the various presumptive benefits of having a registered trademark are much weaker if you're trying to enforce it against a usage that preceded the registration. It seems they would have to rely on the o…

I only did a quick search (UK, US), there could be community (EC) registered marks that are earlier but these should have shown up (in the UK search).

Trademarks are unregistered IP as well as registered. Registration gains you more protection and makes suing people easier but it can be done with an unregistered mark (or that's how things work in the EC).

It doesn't matter when any product was made in as much as the registered mark is a sign of the origin of goods/services it is not a product mark. If there is no other IP protection on your product I can rip it off and sell it as long as I don't use your trademark.

I don't know sufficient to comment on priority of registrations in the US both in the specifics and in general, sorry.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#66

Post by 10ren »

grandalf wrote: post #25
10ren wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN comments are often argumentative. Commonly the top comment on a submission attacks an incidental error in it, ignoring the point of the submission. This may be partly due to startups being scrappy . Or maybe because it's on the internet. However on HN, at least it's usually done politely and civilly. The other kind of useless (noise aot signal) comment is the meta-comment. Like yours (and now mine). The recommende…

I have noticed it too. I think it's mostly just old fashioned karma whoring...

So I guess the issue isn't that people on HN sometimes make emptily argumentative comment - but that people on HN vote them up.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#67

Post by grandalf »

10ren wrote: post #66
grandalf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed it too. I think it's mostly just old fashioned karma whoring...

So I guess the issue isn't that people on HN sometimes make emptily argumentative comment - but that people on HN vote them up.

I think so.

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#68

Post by vsync »

ahoyhere wrote: post #47
dalore wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Apple records should get Apple to cease selling music.

All you'd have to do is Google to avoid making a very, very silly comment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

whoosh

Re: Last week Apple asked me to remove my app from the App Store. Now I know why.

#69

Post by jaekwon »

cmelbye wrote: post #10
jaekwon wrote: post #6

The context is that Apple doesn't have the balls to say things as they are.

Yeah, those losers. They really should have just said "Hey, we're releasing a brand new feature called FaceTime and we need you to change your apps name. Oh yeah, and just don't tell anyone. Thanks!"

That is exactly what I'm saying, sans sarcasm.

To say what is, as it is, without resorting to secrecy, is indicative of strength.

Time will tell, but I believe Google & Android will win over Apple for this exact reason.

And I'll repeat, Apple lacks in Cohones.

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