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Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

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Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#161

Post by baq »

maze-le wrote: post #136
narag wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a free market if there is information assymetry, it's there in the first paragraph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market It says that there is a less assuming version, but I'd always heard the information thing.

Well, if that is the case, the free market is a pureley theoretical concept, that is not realized anywhere in the world. And it cannot be realized, because there is always inevitable some form of information assymetry.

economics 101 right here. free market is a theoretical model.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#162

Post by coldpie »

maze-le wrote: post #136
narag wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a free market if there is information assymetry, it's there in the first paragraph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market It says that there is a less assuming version, but I'd always heard the information thing.

Well, if that is the case, the free market is a pureley theoretical concept, that is not realized anywhere in the world. And it cannot be realized, because there is always inevitable some form of information assymetry.

Yes, precisely. Which is why you should immediately dismiss any politician masturbating about government interference in the "free market." Their premise starts in fantasy land and only gets worse from there.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#163

Post by masondixon »

edsheeran wrote: post #49

They could have used common sense. Be polite. Raise the ante. Negotiate. There was a manager/person in charge who didn't use common sense and then it escalated to more parties without common sense. Low EQ who only know threat of force and escalation of force. Our loss of wisdom https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_our_loss_of_wisd...

They offered $800 to get off the flight.

This is what they have to pay by law. Bumping is legal, and must pay if the bump involuntarily.

I don't know how a grown adult can get into the kind of situation where they need to be carried off a plane.

Absolutely ridiculous that anyone thinks the behaviour of the passenger is acceptable in society. And he is a doctor. This is so unprofessional and I would fire the man if he worked for me.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#164

Post by Neliquat »

jacquesm wrote: post #149
fennecfoxen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, TeaPigs? With the dachshund mascot on the Darjeeling Earl Grey, and the brown-paper boxes, and the overpriced wares? Yeah, you can get those everywhere; they're clearly _way_ too mass-market to be properly independent. If you're spending cash money the on indie feel of things, you'll be buying BigCorp sooner or later. Better to just buy quality. > Then... where do you draw the line? Is private equity backing prob…

> If you're spending cash money the on indie feel of things, you'll be buying BigCorp sooner or later. Better to just buy quality. Most of these start out as quality. Then what happens is that during some survey BigCorp finds out that SmallQualityCorp is nibbling away at their sales & profits and then the next thing you know SmallQualityCorp has been acquired by BigCorp.

See: Snapple

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#165

Post by [deleted] »

rurban wrote: post #63
dagw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you honestly name or a remember a PR disaster as bad as this one about any company in the past two years? Volkswagen was probably just as bad at the time. Now of course most people have kind of forgotten or at least moved on and VW just posted strong Q1 results, handily beating estimates.

Glad you brought that up. VW has even less to do with the dieselgate scandal than UA has with this O'Hare incident. VW uses engines and engine software parametrization from Audi. Audi uses engine software and esp. the cheating device from Bosch. Everyone else also uses it. But VW being the biggest of them all is getting the blame and has to pay the fine.

[deleted]

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#166

Post by masondixon »

I don't get it.

Airline bumping is legislated. You get bumped involuntarily, you get $800. He got bumped, he can get the money.

If he doesn't get off the plane what else are they suppose to do?

I don't know how a grown adult can get into a situation where they need to be physically carried off a plane.

His behaviour was childish, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#167

Post by masondixon »

tuna-piano wrote: post #24

I see this whole event kind of like the Rosa Parks situation. I'm not comparing the magnitude of injustice, just that (a)There was an unjust system and (b)It took an individual to stick up for the just result, even though it was breaking the rules. Also, the author is wrong in this passage: From the article: "The gate agents offered offered $800 in airline scrip to anyone willing to deplane, which from past observati…

> (a) There was an unjust system and

There was a legislated racist system.

The bumping laws are not discriminatory and are good for everyone. Airlines can stay more competitive (offer passengers cheaper seats) by being able to bump passengers and fill as many seats as possible for every flight. The compensation is set at a price point to disincentivise bumping. Its a completely free market approach.

(b) It took an individual to stick up for the just result, even though it was breaking the rules.

What is the just result? The law is still the law. Next time this happens, the passenger won't act like a child, and it won't be a headline.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#168

Post by bkkssnn »

masondixon wrote: post #163
edsheeran wrote: post #49

They could have used common sense. Be polite. Raise the ante. Negotiate. There was a manager/person in charge who didn't use common sense and then it escalated to more parties without common sense. Low EQ who only know threat of force and escalation of force. Our loss of wisdom https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_our_loss_of_wisd...

They offered $800 to get off the flight. This is what they have to pay by law. Bumping is legal, and must pay if the bump involuntarily. I don't know how a grown adult can get into the kind of situation where they need to be carried off a plane. Absolutely ridiculous that anyone thinks the behaviour of the passenger is acceptable in society. And he is a doctor. This is so unprofessional and I would fire the man if he…

No offense but did you read the article and the referenced texts it's citing?

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#169

Post by masondixon »

bkor wrote: post #107
smcl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep reading it becomes apparent why this is actually quite shady and not a clean dodge for united. It's an attempt to use lower-wage non-union workers, made more interesting by the fact that Republic are going through bankruptcy (and therefore aren't themselves being sued by the passengers, since there's some sort of limit on the compensation they could get) and that United are semi-OK with taking the blame t…

If I buy a ticket from United Airlines, I don't care if they contract it out or code share things with some other company. Your ticket is with one company. It's their responsibility to hold another / the contracted company accountable, not yours.

Agree. I had a similar dispute with a codeshare ticket in the past. You make a contract with the airline that sells you the ticket and it is their responsibility to resolve the issue with their carrier.

In a codeshare dispute, both airlines will blame each other, but it is important to focus all your efforts on the ticket seller.

Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident

#170

Post by zipwitch »

DennisP wrote: post #152
fennecfoxen wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Board executives at JPMorgan Chase, PNC and the other banks that caused so much destruction in 2008 should have been thrown in jail next to rapists, paedophiles and murders. What strange ideas of justice the world has! In an ostensibly advanced country, America, one side of the political spectrum would be have us remain willfully oblivious to police abuses, corrupt prosecutors withholding or fabricating evidence, a…

The bankers did more than make shaky loans. In some cases they committed actual fraud, amounting to billions of dollars, which had effects like wiping out people's retirement accounts. I think you're right that they deserve less punishment than murderers. But what they got is less punishment than some people get for standing on the wrong street corner. For details, on both the bankers and the people on street corners…

A murder destroys a single life, or handful of lives, directly. Is a bank executive who wilfully commits fraud that damages million of lives better or far worse?

Regardless of how bad it is (and I do think there are arguments to be made both ways), being allowed to effectively escape punishment because the distributed nature of the crime makes it hard to comprehend its real impact is both wrong and damaging to society in the long run.

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