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System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

blog.system76.com

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Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all lenovo Thinkpad laptops works perfectly fine with Linux. Source: I have about 5, different models.

By perfectly fine, do you mean: - Wifi is flaky (ier than on windows) - Battery life is shit (ier than on windows) - Sleep mode has one of the following problems * Does not properly suspend (i.e. wakes up immediately when suspending, shuts down instead of suspending) * Does not properly resume (i.e. kernel crash on resume) * Sometimes does not properly resume (even more annoying to debug) * Resumes randomly, when you…

That got an NVidia GPU?

Not much can be done with vendors that are actively hostile.

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallacy of the excluded middle. They can do something more than Apple (i.e. not just USB-C ports), but less than others. The Apple design doesn't end up being small or light, because to actually use it you need a plethora of connectors. At a minimum, I would expect standard USB, headphone, sd card reader, standard HDMI, mini displayport. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that an HDMI connector adds more…

vga and ethernet on modern laptop is a sin. they are barely younger than 5" floppy disks.

Is it a sin to use the latin alphabet on keys? That's several thousand years old.

What's wrong with widely used communication standards?

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all lenovo Thinkpad laptops works perfectly fine with Linux. Source: I have about 5, different models.

By perfectly fine, do you mean: - Wifi is flaky (ier than on windows) - Battery life is shit (ier than on windows) - Sleep mode has one of the following problems * Does not properly suspend (i.e. wakes up immediately when suspending, shuts down instead of suspending) * Does not properly resume (i.e. kernel crash on resume) * Sometimes does not properly resume (even more annoying to debug) * Resumes randomly, when you…

Owner of a Thinkpad X1 3rd gen running Debian (started with Jessie, now Stretch), and my experience is quite different but there are some things to know. Let's trade anecdotes:

> - Wifi is flaky (ier than on windows)

No problem there, always been rock solid. The chipset is likely to matter, my laptop uses an Intel chipset. Performance wise Intel may not be the best, but the Linux support has always been good in my experience.

> - Battery life is shit (ier than on windows)

A very common misunderstanding, and very easy to solve. The thing is, a stock Linux distro is made independently of the PC hardware that will run it. There's no integration like any PC vendor does when installing Windows, making sure the Windows configuration is well tuned. In order to be functional on most devices, a Linux distro is typically conservative, and will typically stay away from enabling low-power modes that are flaky on some crappy PC models.

But for most tier 1 PC brands, the hardware is fine and it's perfectly safe to enable aggressive low-power. So just install a package like The Laptop Project (tlp), or the older laptop-mode, and you're good to go. You can even tune the configuration, it's simple and well commented. For example, with a fast SSD (no spin up/down), one can be very aggressive on putting the drive into low-power.

With this done, taking about 10 mn tops, I have a longer battery life on Linux as on the stock Windows8.1. And this is as reported by the firmware through ACPI, so same estimator on both sides.

> [Various sleep mode issues]

There was a very nasty bug in Linux MMU set-up that's been solved in 4.8. Before this, it could trigger some random and sometimes hard to reproduce bugs on some models, leading to crashes on resume. I've been affected, and it was a pain. The bug was there for a long time apparently.

Since 4.8, it's been rock solid. Zero issues. And it's really night and day in term of user experience. In case some of your issues were related, you may want to make sure you're running a recent enough kernel.

As for the unwanted wake-ups in a bag turned into an oven? Only ever happened to me on my work TP running Win7. From experience, sleep is not perfect there too.

No experience on using an external monitor with my Linux laptop.

One of the main weakness is that there's no ODM integration if you install Linux yourself. With big brands like TP, it's still mostly been smooth in my experience, except for the nasty resume bug fixed in 4.8. If that's a problem for you, there are now vendors with pre-installed Linux. Then it's a similar situation to Windows.

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#35
post #6

The problem with this is that you either do something like what Apple does (and receive the hate for it) or then you do "what people want" and get this https://twitter.com/JonyIveParody/status/850350499840888833 AFAIK this whole System 76 blew up because of the disappointment in the newest Macbook Pro. People say they'd wanted bigger battery and more connectors -- however, I'm a bit skeptical if those would be enough…

Fallacy of the excluded middle. They can do something more than Apple (i.e. not just USB-C ports), but less than others. The Apple design doesn't end up being small or light, because to actually use it you need a plethora of connectors. At a minimum, I would expect standard USB, headphone, sd card reader, standard HDMI, mini displayport. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that an HDMI connector adds more…

I'm of a different mind. A laptop is inherently portable, and I want wireless.

- No headphone cable, I have bluetooth headphones - No ethernet, I have wireless - No hdmi/displayport, I have chromecast/miracast

In general, I don't want to connect all that much to my laptop. And for the things I want to I'd prefer a universal connector such as usb-c. Make a docking station that works over usb-c where I can connect whatever is on my work desk such that I only have to plug in a single cable and everything is good for me.

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By perfectly fine, do you mean: - Wifi is flaky (ier than on windows) - Battery life is shit (ier than on windows) - Sleep mode has one of the following problems * Does not properly suspend (i.e. wakes up immediately when suspending, shuts down instead of suspending) * Does not properly resume (i.e. kernel crash on resume) * Sometimes does not properly resume (even more annoying to debug) * Resumes randomly, when you…

I can only speak about myself of course but running Ubuntu 16.04 on a thinkpad x250 I have absolutely none of the issues you have listed above. Maybe you hear more about people having bad experiences than good ones?

I remember having these issues on an x60 series maybe 8 years ago, but my friends who have thinkpads are all running them fine, even on the jankiest distros with a bit of careful driver picking

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#37
post #7

Looked at the specs for the Galago Pro. Would be nice to see more details. What's the panel type for the screen? What is the battery capacity and the estimated battery life? What kind of wifi is inside? Is it 802.11ac, 3x3 MIMO? What ports does it have for storage, is it 2.5" sata, m.2 or both? Edit: When customizing the machine I can see that it has m.2 and 2.5" sata. The wifi is 802.11ac 2x2 or 3x3.

I am looking to replace my good old faithful IBM X61.

Currently, size wise, it's only the 2016 Macbook that has made an impression on my eye - and I am not really happy with putting so much money on the table for a sub-par performance notebook.

I like the hardware specs of the Galago Pro. Unfortunately, I can't say that for the design. So much wasted real estate (e.g. screen).

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#38
I'm not really sure what's being said here, though?

They're going to build better computers in a few years, is the message I got from it. Are they showing/announcing anything today?

Side note: is the Bonobo really rocking dual GTX 1080's? Like the full-size desktop 1080's?

I don't game as much as I once did so I'm behind the times on mobility graphics (I understand they've come a long way), but that really impresses me.

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all lenovo Thinkpad laptops works perfectly fine with Linux. Source: I have about 5, different models.

By perfectly fine, do you mean: - Wifi is flaky (ier than on windows) - Battery life is shit (ier than on windows) - Sleep mode has one of the following problems * Does not properly suspend (i.e. wakes up immediately when suspending, shuts down instead of suspending) * Does not properly resume (i.e. kernel crash on resume) * Sometimes does not properly resume (even more annoying to debug) * Resumes randomly, when you…

Proud x201 user here.

Wifi works perfectly, suspend/resume, docking/undocking too.

As for battery life, it was around 19W/h when I first switched to linux after FreeBSD. After installing tld and powertop it is stable around 10.8-12W with wifi enabled.

Maybe you might want to try a recent distro, I'm using Fedora and I really like it.

Even my 3G usb dongle worked flawlessly with zero config.

PS: I remember having a flaky wifi under Debian 8, but that was due to an old version of wifi driver. It has since long been fixed in every distro I tried -including Debian-.

PS 2: My laptop is pretty old (x201), so your mileage may vary. You might want to check out thinkwikis for further info.

Re: System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house

#40

I'm not really sure what's being said here, though? They're going to build better computers in a few years, is the message I got from it. Are they showing/announcing anything today? Side note: is the Bonobo really rocking dual GTX 1080's? Like the full-size desktop 1080's? I don't game as much as I once did so I'm behind the times on mobility graphics (I understand they've come a long way), but that really impresses…

They're OSSing all their CAD and making the machines themselves for one thing.
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